• Registered: 2011-05-08
  • Posts: 8

Topic: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

First, thanks.  Thanks A LOT! for a fantastic distro.  I am a longtime Debian and Ubuntu user and I also have used many Debian-based distros, but #! is, IMHO, unique.  Here is why:

Debian is the "universal OS".  It runs on 11 (eleven!) architectures, for pete's sake!  And the folks at Debian cannot favor one over the other.  What #! offers is "Debian adapted to x86" - but not only "adapted" but *optimally configured*. As I recently told a friend of mine - #! is exactly what I would want if I took 1-1,5 hours to configure Debian.  Except I installed #! in 15mins :-)

But if #! is super-easy to install, it is not going down the terrible road of dumbing down the distro for the putative "masses" like Ubuntu does.  Shuttleworth actually openly admitted that what inspired Unity was, I am not kidding, smartphones and Apple iToys.

#! offers a basic choice of XFCE and Openbox - the best possible choices (though I personally prefer the latter).  So in an easy 15mins install you get a *real* GNU/Linux box, not some "cute" bloated distro.  Awesome choice!

Then the post-install scripts are nothing short of FANTASTIC.  In a couple of short keypresses they configure all the most important aspects of a distro.  Love that!!!

Now, after all this sincere praise, one heartfelt request:

Can you please make #! a rolling distro based on "testing"?

I mean - having a name like Crunchbang and basic it on "Debian stable" just make no sense, right?  A short look at the forums here shows that Crunchbang *never* crunchbangs :-)  Maybe it would crunchbang just a little more with "Debian testing"?

More seriously, I betcha that the vast majority of Crunchbangers who, after all, were not scared by its name, would be delighted to have #! be based on "Debian testing".

To really optimize Debian for x86 and achieve a perfect balance between stability and age testing is the way to go.  Or, even better, offer the choice at install time!!

How hard would it be to make the first install script giving the *choice* between "Stable" and "Testing"?

Corenominal - a huge heartfelt THANK YOU for your fantastic distro.

Kind regards,

Farhad

Last edited by Farhad Gulemov (2011-06-15 15:29:46)

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  • From: Section Six
  • Registered: 2009-10-18
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Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

There are several threads on making CrunchBang Statler a rolling release - the best IMHO involves apt-pinning to allow installing some packages from Testing and Unstable while preserving most of the stability of Stable, but the simplest is simply changing references to Squeeze in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/preferences to either Testing or Unstable/Sid.  The threads on this can easily be found by using the forum's search feature.

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  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 2,085

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Welcome to the forums Farhad! If you notice, the forums were recently divided into separate Help and Support sections for Stable and Testing/Unstable. Support for "rolling #!" is better than it's ever been! Personally I am a "Stable" user; because I use #! on my work desktop, reliability is my top priority. Stable/Squeeze was the logical "first step" in #!-Debian developement; I'm sure we'll see a #! build based on Testing/Wheezy when Corenominal feels ready... smile

  • From: In Front of The Black Gates
  • Registered: 2011-04-26
  • Posts: 5,124

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Welcome Farhad...

Using smxi along with threads throughout here is simple enough to get to testing or sid...

Having said that, it would be nice to have it as a choices as you suggest...

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  • Awebb
  • #! Die-hard
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  • Registered: 2009-07-23
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Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Strange pictures in my head. I expect a "rolling release" based on testing to look a bit like this:

http://www.abload.de/img/rollingcubes3wf4f.png

I'm so meta, even this acronym
  • From: forest town, lake land
  • Registered: 2011-02-26
  • Posts: 358

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

I think it is better left out of the welcome script. Running off testing is more likely to run into problems, and being in the welcome script would make it too easy. If it is harder to get there hopefully the people who do it will be more likely able to fix any problems they run into. Just my 2 cents.

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  • Unia
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Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

hardran3 wrote:

I think it is better left out of the welcome script. Running off testing is more likely to run into problems, and being in the welcome script would make it too easy. If it is harder to get there hopefully the people who do it will be more likely able to fix any problems they run into. Just my 2 cents.

And the people who want to run testing/sid generally have more experience than those who don't, and probably know how to (easily) do it themselves.

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  • From: In Front of The Black Gates
  • Registered: 2011-04-26
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Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Unia wrote:
hardran3 wrote:

I think it is better left out of the welcome script. Running off testing is more likely to run into problems, and being in the welcome script would make it too easy. If it is harder to get there hopefully the people who do it will be more likely able to fix any problems they run into. Just my 2 cents.

And the people who want to run testing/sid generally have more experience than those who don't, and probably know how to (easily) do it themselves.

Agreed... it is easy enough

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  • From: #! NightClub
  • Registered: 2011-06-02
  • Posts: 3,837

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

hardran3 wrote:

I think it is better left out of the welcome script. Running off testing is more likely to run into problems, and being in the welcome script would make it too easy. If it is harder to get there hopefully the people who do it will be more likely able to fix any problems they run into. Just my 2 cents.

I agree also. I think Stable is a must for all that want to begin for the first time either with Debian or with #!. It is so simple to just change the sources list or even to use apt pinning, when comfortable enough.
I consider both things more for experienced users even if it is not as difficult, but you have anyway to learn some things, breakage could happen.
Some people also need a really stable working station.

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  • From: 127.0.0.1
  • Registered: 2010-07-02
  • Posts: 1,272

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

If you can't figure out how to switch debian stable to testing, then I probably don't feel like figuring out how to fix all the bugs you encounter tongue Just sayin'

  • From: forest town, lake land
  • Registered: 2011-02-26
  • Posts: 358

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Welcome to the forums as well Farhad. Good to see another crunchbanger. Take a look at my apt pinning thread, It may help you with some things smile

Farhad Gulemov wrote:

I mean - having a name like Crunchbang and basic it on "Debian stable" just make no sense, right?  A short look at the forums here shows that Crunchbang *never* crunchbangs

http://adaptershack.com/m/files/images2.wikia.nocookie.net___cb20090819180841_uncyclopedia_images_1_13_Thats_the_joke.jpg

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  • From: 127.0.0.1
  • Registered: 2010-07-02
  • Posts: 1,272

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

hardran3 wrote:

]
http://adaptershack.com/m/files/images2.wikia.nocookie.net___cb20090819180841_uncyclopedia_images_1_13_Thats_the_joke.jpg

lol lol lol lol

  • Registered: 2011-05-08
  • Posts: 8

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

ok, it looks like I have been outvoted on this one, LOL!
Guys, it's good to be here and to have joined the (very nice) #! community :-)
I will probably stick to the stable repos for a while, but I will look at the apt-pinning thread and if the apps are really late, I might just go for it.
So far, I installed FF4 which is the only one I wanted to update (I have backports repos enabled).  So for the time being, I am quite happy.
Cheers!
Farhad

PS:@hardran3: yes, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with my Crunchbang not crunchbanging comment ;-)

Last edited by Farhad Gulemov (2011-06-16 16:55:19)

  • From: #! NightClub
  • Registered: 2011-06-02
  • Posts: 3,837

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Farhad Gulemov wrote:

ok, it looks like I have been outvoted on this one, LOL!
Guys, it's good to be here and to have joined the (very nice) #! community :-)
I will probably stick to the stable repos for a while, but I will look at the apt-pinning thread and if the apps are really late, I might just go for it.
So far, I installed FF4 which is the only one I wanted to update (I have backports repos enabled).  So for the time being, I am quite happy.
Cheers!
Farhad

PS:@hardran3: yes, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with my Crunchbang not crunchbanging comment ;-)

It is easy to make your machine Crunchbang, just switch to SID if you want and play with it, but sometimes even on the dark side you could find a somehow amazing boredom. smile
But nice that you are happy with your current setup.

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  • Val_B
  • #! CrunchBanger
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  • From: SE United States
  • Registered: 2010-01-25
  • Posts: 238

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

I run one PC on testing and the other stable + backports, and I think at the current time there are few reasons to run testing as a release OS. Maybe in a few years if debian takes as long as it did last time to make a new stable branch, but IIRC they were going to try are speed that up a bit.

Then again, I am boring I even ran Gentoo on the "stable" tree.

  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 2,085

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Also keep in mind that #! is a distro based on another distro (Debian). The risk with basing your distro on someone else's Testing branch is that a change in Debian tomorrow could undo all the hard work Corenominal does on #! today and set the project back to square one.

By basing a release on a Stable platform, there is a reasonable guarantee that release will perform as expected for a defined support cycle.

  • Registered: 2010-09-02
  • Posts: 347

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

@Val_B   
what I saw was that Debian was planning to release approx. every two years but only when it is ready.

Last edited by jeffreyC (2011-06-16 22:15:09)

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

@jeffreyC - Doesn't Debian already do that?

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  • Registered: 2010-09-02
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Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

@anonymous
Val_B   was thinking that they were going to speed it up, which is not what I read.

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  • From: In Front of The Black Gates
  • Registered: 2011-04-26
  • Posts: 5,124

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Anyone know the logic behind 2 years? 

6 months is the too quick extreme...

But in technology 2 years can be an eternity...  The computer you buy tomorrow will run fine in 2 years but will be considered dated....

Not trying to suggest anything, just wondering on why 2 years was a choice where 18 months would seem a more logical one ...

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

The news page for the announcement simply says:

A two-year release cycle will give more time for disruptive changes, reducing inconveniences caused for users.

Also shouldn't the middle ground between 6 and 24 months technically be 15 months? 18 months still is a lot of time; its about 3 Ubuntu releases.

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  • From: In Front of The Black Gates
  • Registered: 2011-04-26
  • Posts: 5,124

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

anonymous wrote:

The news page for the announcement simply says:

A two-year release cycle will give more time for disruptive changes, reducing inconveniences caused for users.

That would make sense in an environment where a budget was a factor in replacing a machine(s),  simply meaning it is more in line with a corporate environment... It sounds like a selling point to a board of directors...

anonymous wrote:

Also shouldn't the middle ground between 6 and 24 months technically be 15 months? 18 months still is a lot of time; its about 3 Ubuntu releases.

This is an important point..  And yes, 15 months would be more in line with the change of technologies that are measured and real..

Another baffling thing to me is how am I relevant to Debian and testing it? 

In the Ubuntu world, we all adapted to the 6 month cycle and was heavily involved in the development cycle... This was a choice and one of the only things I miss in that world. We either had another machine, a virtual space or several partitions setup just for the testing cycle and with that a place to discuss and report issues and bugs.. It really was being a part of it and making a difference...

I am now in a pure testing environment with #! Debian on testing, but I have no idea how or when or when or where to report anything..  And honestly, I have never once reported a bug to Debian (that I know of)...  Conversely, I have reported hundreds to both Ubuntu and Fedora..

All that I have heard and experienced with the Debian forums and help has absolutely factored in my decisions to not go there...

Are there alternatives and is there a Testing area to discuss results, bugs and issues?

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

VastOne wrote:

simply meaning it is more in line with a corporate environment...

Well Debian's stability does make it a top choice for servers.

VastOne wrote:

I am now in a pure testing environment with #! Debian on testing, but I have no idea how or when or when or where to report anything..  And honestly, I have never once reported a bug to Debian (that I know of)...  Conversely, I have reported hundreds to both Ubuntu and Fedora..

All that I have heard and experienced with the Debian forums and help has absolutely factored in my decisions to not go there...

Are there alternatives and is there a Testing area to discuss results, bugs and issues?

First and only time I reported a bug I just did sent via email:

http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

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  • From: California
  • Registered: 2010-01-02
  • Posts: 89

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

I'm not running a server, and would like an updated image with backports / important updates quicker than every 2 years.  E.g., I wanted Thunar 1.2.1. so I could see my windows machines better, and what a b*tch it was (early adopter, roll )  Importing an updated app from a different repository is problematic, because it was compiled against different libraries.  I updated to testing just to make it easier.

Last edited by 73ChargerFan (2011-06-18 02:53:58)

  • Registered: 2011-09-04
  • Posts: 18

Re: #! is amazing - but you could make it even better

Sorry, I somehow responded to the wrong post doing research. I would remove it if I new how. Thunar test sounds fun. Do you have a link to how to get the test version?

Last edited by taseis (2011-09-08 00:50:54)