Topic: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

edit: Massive updates. Check it out!
Hi.  I'm here, more or less, because I do everything el_koraco tells me to do.  I'm not sure why, but it's worked out ok so far.  Whether or not it actually sticks is another matter.  He told me to use scrotwm, and I did, and I loved it, and for some reason I'm on herbstluftwm now instead, but that is also wonderful.  Anyway, he told me to start using bitmap fonts so I could fit more on my screen.  I hated them all, so I created my own, for which el_koraco gave many suggestions early on that have made the whole thing much slicker (I'm still being stubborn about the braces, however).  Other people have also had helpful things to say.  Sander17 at UF and the Arch Linux Forum encouraged me to host it on GIT and he manages an AUR package for it now.  Doomicide from here and Arch is also using the font at the moment (or was the last time I saw his screens), and gave a few very helpful opinions about character shapes.

Anyway, for a number of reasons, el_koraco told me to come here, and I always do what he says.  I lurked for a bit, and found that everyone's screenshots looked like mine (which is probably also the result of el_koraco telling me what to do), and more importantly (for this project) this board has the highest density of bitmap-font users that I've seen anywhere on the net, which makes it a good places to get opinions on my font before I bump it to 1.0

Anyway, the font is called bitocra.  It's a smal, clear bitmap font in the spirit of the OCR-A type-face, with many modifications due to the format, and others just because I thought they looked cool.  bitocra-full is an extended version that contains tons of weird Latin characters and Hebrew.  There are two versions because bitocra-full doesn't play nice as an X core font, but normal bitocra does.
Screenshot:
http://ubuntuone.com/7ITguqDOk3slz5pUJMUdbD

You are seeing: a bash script (mine), some C++ in gedit (with gtk 3, part of the source for herbstluftwm), a sample text with all of characters and some test-phrases for various languages, a bit of a seminar paper I'm working in with asciidoc markdown, some Hebrew text, another GTK widget, and cowsay.  Conky is also there at the top.  It is probably the skinniest conky in history.

I'm looking for opinions mostly about specific characters, especially on characters not used in English, since I don't end up using them too often (that goes double for those non-Wester European languages).  General critiques like "too small" or "too boxy" are valid, but they aren't likely to have a huge impact.  The size and general feel of the font are by design.  Due to many requests,  I also have a larger version in the works, and that will be the focus once I'm satisfied that the current size is finished.  "No Cyrillic" is a very valid criticism, but I'm not really qualified to work on it, unfortunately.  There haven't been any requests about it either, so it's just my own conscience being hyper-sensitive about being an ethnocentric American bastard.

The "official" version is in my github repo with the license and readme, but I have a slightly fresher version here with some suggestions from doomicide incorporated (this is pictured version).  What I really need is a dev branch and a stable branch on github, but I tried to this, and I failed (I made a new branch, but I had trouble getting commits on it).  Thoughts on that are welcome as well.  I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to this stuff.

Last edited by ninjaaron (2011-11-24 06:51:32)

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

i have yet to try it out myself, but from the screenshots i can tell you now that i really love your font. it truly looks great. that is not very much of a criticism, at least not when you think all criticism needs to be negative/inquisitive/stupid. i like it and have downloaded it and will try it out later. thanks for this. i'll be sure to listen to el_koraco more often.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Thanks for the complements.  Glad you like it!

rhowaldt wrote:

i'll be sure to listen to el_koraco more often.

I'm not actually advising this to anyone else.  tongue

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

My eyes find this font completely unreadable.

//end of opinion

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

It's a sexy font and looks great, but I'm going to have to agree with Grzegosz that it is a bit uncombable to read, would work great in graphic design where fonts are printed bigger and legibility isn't a real big concern.

Other than that, great work.

Last edited by AwesomeFist (2011-11-05 00:23:54)

"Of course it's happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" -Albus Dumbledore

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Grzegosz wrote:

My eyes find this font completely unreadable.

It's like the artwiz set, you get used to it after a while. It's the blockiness, not the typical pattern.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

^ +1 I wasn't a fan of those blocky/"techy" fonts either, but after trying bitocra (out of boredom, sry big_smile) I'm hooked on it and all other fonts now look too, well, round.

“From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs”

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

First impression is positive. The [] 's are too pronounced compared to the rest, I think.
I will try it out and see what gives on the longer run.

If you poke the bear it is going to come after you.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

The font looks good, but it hurts my eyes. Nothing for walls of text, but perfect for head lines and artworks.

I'm so meta, even this acronym

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

As some have said... That font looks amazing, not for reading, tough. But I could use it in conky, for example.

Nice work! big_smile

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Glad people are liking the overall style of the font, even if they don't find it readable.

What happened to Doom with this font is basically what happened to me with an OCR-A font.  I didn't really think it was the most readable, but I like the style, so I started using it in a terminal profile that was just for basic tasks.  Soon, I had switched all my profiles to it, and I was using it for everything thing instead of monospace, and I eventually found it more readable, I think because the shapes are so distinct, because it's designed to be read by computers.  That font wasn't hinted, however, and looked pretty bad at small sizes, so I started looking into bitmaps.  I found some artwiz fonts that looked pretty good, but nothing that really did it for me like the OCR-A.

Then I started working on this.  A lot of things are different, but I wanted to keep that old-school digital feeling about it, which, according to all of your reports, I've managed to do.  Anyway, it does take a little getting used to, but I find this font to be as readable as anything (I took special care to be sure that all the characters look different).  Of course, if you are already happy with your fonts, there isn't really any reason to change.

Shit! gotta go get my pie before it burns!

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

ninjaaron wrote:

Shit! gotta go get my pie before it burns!

PIE!

TBH my first thought when I saw the screenshot in the other thread was similar, WOW someone actually uses this for EVERYTHING.  But I'm interested in fonts artistically and academically, so I can see where this would have applications, esp w/ machine+human readability.  Also looks like one of those that could be useful for tiny displays.

Last edited by orionthehunter (2011-11-05 15:05:48)

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

hellz yeah pie! not everyone likes my font, but I have yet to meet someone who doesn't like my pie.

Also, I don't really recommend that people use this font for GTK apps necessarily (it looks really bad as black on white or vice-versa, IMO), but having to see it everywhere helps me make it better.  I do like the way it looks in the terminal, and I don't have any trouble using it to write my papers in vim.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

I like OCR-ish fonts, and so I like your's, too. I agree it might not be the  solution for reading tons of text, but as an interface font it's very nice. and scaled up for graphic design tasks.. why not..

i wonder how it might look with 1 pixel less spacing?

and it reminds me of the zillions of 8x8 fonts that I drew back in the days on my commodore64.. I had packed a whole two disksides full with fonts that I drew or collected.. too bad I did not release it back then, so it could be on CSDB now.. I wonder if the disk might be still readable if I find it..?

Last edited by saneks (2011-11-05 16:50:58)

eee701/4gb/512ram

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

saneks wrote:

I like OCR-ish fonts, and so I like your's, too. I agree it might not be the  solution for reading tons of text, but as an interface font it's very nice. and scaled up for graphic design tasks.. why not..

i wonder how it might look with 1 pixel less spacing?

and it reminds me of the zillions of 8x8 fonts that I drew back in the days on my commodore64.. I had packed a whole two disksides full with fonts that I drew or collected.. too bad I did not release it back then, so it could be on CSDB now.. I wonder if the disk might be still readable if I find it?

If you find them, post away!

i wonder how it might look with 1 pixel less spacing?

I actually tried this.  There is one problem,  Æ, æ, Œ and œ begin to touch the adjacent characters if I take that pixel away (ligatures take up extra space, you know).  If Danish and French people don't mind, I guess it's not such a big deal, but it seemed a little too cramped for my eyes at that spacing anyway.  I can try it again... though I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure how I changed it the last time.  I'm still figuring some of the details of bitmap font design out, so I just changed a whole bunch of settings to affect the width.  One of them apparently worked, but I'm still not entirely sure how I got there...  I'll play with it and post some shots and see what people think.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

saneks wrote:

i wonder how it might look with 1 pixel less spacing?

ok, I did it, and you were right.  It's better without the pixel.  Good idea.  Thanks a lot!

Here's the picture for everyone's critique:
http://ubuntuone.com/6t9gOnWnyovx0az8i3CJaW

and here's the tar if anyone wants to use it:
http://ubuntuone.com/7IxjrJYnkmav8eaY7m5qWK

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

ninjaaron wrote:

[
ok, I did it, and you were right.  It's better without the pixel.  Good idea.  Thanks a lot!

Much better!

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Looks great with the 1 pixel less spacing. Will try it asap (= after school).

“From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs”

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

oh yeah, much better now. thanks for your thanks.

which tool did you use to create your font?

eee701/4gb/512ram

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

gbdfed

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Will you apply the smaller spacing also to bitocra as an X core font? Btw: How's the work on size 12 going, or did you drop the idea?

“From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs”

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Doomicide wrote:

Will you apply the smaller spacing also to bitocra as an X core font?

should be now.
http://ubuntuone.com/7IxjrJYnkmav8eaY7m5qWK

Btw: How's the work on size 12 going, or did you drop the idea?

It's still coming, but I'm not really doing anything with it until I feel like this size is finished.  Since I working with a new size, I have to basically start from scratch.  I made the other font just by modifying this one, so it went very quickly, but the larger one has different metrics, so I can't really use anything I've already done.

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

^I can't see a difference, but that might just be me. Also I'm glad to hear you're working on the bigger font gl smile

EDIT: I just use xft:bitocra now and installed dzen2 svn version which supports xft, too. Looks great!

Last edited by Doomicide (2011-11-08 19:01:24)

“From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs”

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Yeah, mine is still has the extra pixel in conky no matter how I call it (X or xft).  It must be something about the way the application processes it.  It's fine in gtk apps, and (now) in as an x core font in most apps (terminals, dmenu, xfontsel), but conky is just being stubborn.  The way it looks up there doesn't really bother me, but it bothers me that I can't figure out how to change it.

mad

Re: I made a font, and I want CrunchBang's opinions.

Dzen has the old spacing, too, even with xft.

“From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs”