Topic: Bad tasting Wine

Members of the Linux community.
I come to you to bring light to your eyes.
WINE, commonly known as the Windows API Linux interface, Is a threat to the very nature and existence of Linux.
Wine shows microsoft that we still need them, It shows that no one has a choice but to bow to this horrifiying beast.
I will be doing a speech on youtube that calls linux users not to use wine but instead use native linux apps.
For every program under windows, I have found a better one under Linux. Total cost: $0.00

Guys- advise me on what to say during the speech. Anything will help, from tips on what to wear to opening and closing lines.
Ill be doing the speech on monday so any advice you can give will be great.
Thanks!

Re: Bad tasting Wine

My advice is to relax and enjoy the weekend cool Wine is merely a convenience for some people to run programs that they enjoyed using on the Windows platform (many of the open source). In actuality Wine is just another tool that proves that the windows operating system itself is unnecessary if you choose to go down the Linux path. It contains no windows libraries in its raw state. I don't use it myself but many out there find it an essential part of their Linux conversion. More power to it smile

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Re: Bad tasting Wine

The only app I use Wine for is Spotify, wish there were a Linux version though.

#!, all else is but a shadow!

Re: Bad tasting Wine

I rarely install Wine. Having to install Wine on Linux is similar to watching the Start Menu populate on Windows  - once you get so far you know you're in cruft city and need to reinstall.

There used to be few Windows programs I liked. I used to like Notepad++ but that's got worse and now I've discovered Geany.

BTW I don't totally subscribe to your agenda - I'm still cheering on the ReactOS project. VMWare helped me in my transition to Linux more than Wine did. (Now we have VirtualBox.) I just couldn't stand how ugly Wine made my Windows apps - there were definitely multiple impulses to look for proper alternatives.

I think the last holdout for Wine users is folks who have various multimedia/proprietary CDs. Be prepared for that when folks start putting their hands up at the end of your speech!

Re: Bad tasting Wine

currently i only have wine installed to run memory map (map software) only as there isnt a linux version that i know of, plus i actually paid money for it when i used windows and i dont like to throw money away like that.

otherwise linux has everything else covered for me

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Re: Bad tasting Wine

I thought Wine was short for, Wine Is Not an Emulator =o)
I also use Wine for Spotify. But that's it.

Perhaps hunt down a little history about programs that used to be run in Wine, but then a Linux alternative got coded by someone.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

rigosantana3 wrote:

Members of the Linux community.
For every program under windows, I have found a better one under Linux. Total cost: $0.00
Thanks!

sadly, i have to disagree. while windows is an inferior OS, its apps are much better. there are no comparable video editing, CAD, photo editing or other specialty programs. Wine is still very much-needed app.

example: GIMP is great, but in the professional world, can never replace photoshop. ever.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

sadly, i have to disagree. while windows is an inferior OS, its apps are much better. there are no comparable video editing, CAD, photo editing or other specialty programs. Wine is still very much-needed app.

example: GIMP is great, but in the professional world, can never replace photoshop. ever.

Video editing: Kdenlive
CAD: Came from linux in the first place
Photo editing: Gimp is more powerful than photoshop if you READ THE MANUAL
Specialty programs: to work with specific hardware OK you got me there. thing that are made for specific devices like microscoped or satellite control systems- of coure THEIR PROPRIETARY. It would be impossible for them to be put in any repo because the company that made it would not want to release their source code.

Geez- from your guy's responses, you sound like windows symathist (*cough* traitors)
I have a dream that one day wine will be unnecesarry.
I have a dream that all programs will be open source.
I have a dream that the repos will not be divided into multiverse and open.
I have a dream that people of all distro's will be able to support the entire world of software without fear of licence restrictions.
I have a dream-- That one day "sudo apt-get" will be a household name.

And I have a dream That one day this world will realize the clause of humanity:
We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL software is created equal.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

@rigosantana3 - Think of the big picture: would you rather people run linux and use wine, or just run Windows?

Anyways I wish you luck.

Note: ** Please read before posting **

BTW if you wish to contact me, send me an e-mail instead of a PM.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

I think all of us can understand to some extent where you're coming from Rigo. My question is what's your answer for all of us "PC gamers" left out in the cold?

Re: Bad tasting Wine

I'm a graphic designer, a couple years ago i decided to migrate and start the slow and painful (but necessary and correct) move to linux. Gimp though powerful, even with reading the manual, does not support CMYK, an incredibly basic tool of photoshop, The crop tool in gimp is nice, but unfortunately doesn't compare with the crop tool in Photoshop. For most GIMP enthusiasts out there when people bring up the CMYK support they spout (including myself) that GIMP is a different tool than photoshop. This is true, but if the argument is that it is different and not a photoshop replacement, then there is no photoshop replacement, and this leads high end photo editing to Mac and MS. So when you tell people not to use MS or Mac, your not telling them to just not use an operating system, your telling them not to be graphic designers. Unless these people have wine, they will run to support the dreaded MS or Mac. You might be strengthening the members of the linux community by weaning them off of MS and Mac but at this revolutionary moment in time, what we need is not to strengthen the individual members but create as large a community as possible. Right now as strong as we are as important as we are, we are a joke, and the only way to be taken seriously is to grow. Something we can't do if we restrict peoples freedoms to just open source software. Also since when is linux about telling anyone ever that things have to be a certain way?
Alright that's my rant, off to do homework

ps, operating system is just a thing you use to get stuff done.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

Instead of targeting Wine as the devil and source of all that is evil, target the reasons it is considered a necessity to so many.

For every 1 for 1 linux-native alternative there is the less useful Wine is. Find the top ran programs on wine and start there. Join a dev team (i.e. GIMP), or start your own, and help create a 1 for 1 open source alternative to the closed-source MAC/Windows applications.

This type of action results in contribution to the open source world rather than shunning those who can't find open sourced products that meet their specific needs.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

Dauntes wrote:

I think all of us can understand to some extent where you're coming from Rigo. My question is what's your answer for all of us "PC gamers" left out in the cold?

The only thing I use Wine for is for gaming. Heck, I've actually gotten better performance under Wine then Windows at times.  For everything else I do, I use native Linux applications (not necessarily open source, because, sometimes I use Opera for web browsing if the spirit moves me to do so).

- Al

Re: Bad tasting Wine

Tool in a toolbox.

Sony VAIO VGN-N130G
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Re: Bad tasting Wine

I used to use wine (or crossover) to run the Proxomitron in linux. Up-to-date filters are easy to get. There really isn't anything else as good, except ad muncher payware for Windows. (Bfilter looks pretty cool but I hear that it is no longer under active development. Other linux options? Privoxy perhaps.)

OTOH, if you don't require a comprehensive solution in linux, then nothing beats Firefox with Adblock Plus and noscript engaged. cool

Last edited by tnylnxgy (2009-05-13 00:42:21)

Re: Bad tasting Wine

I use WINE. I also use Windows reasonably regularly.

I do believe Linux is a better designed, and often times implemented, OS, and that Open Source would ideally be the standard format, rather than proprietary, but I use WINE, I use all the restricted extras codecs, I use Opera, I use numerous things that are non-free by Debians standards I go by Debian, except for the Firefox issue) and will continue to do so.

I also use Twitter, Myspace and Facebook. I also buy hardware that comes with Windows pre-installed, and buy hardware that is "designed for windows" and use it with both it and Linux.

I will continue to do all these things because it is my right to have choice. I dislike Windows weaknesses, but when it comes to software external to MSFT, then you often find there is no competitor.

Ex-KDE user.
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Re: Bad tasting Wine

tnylnxgy wrote:

(Bfilter looks pretty cool but I hear that it is no longer under active development. Other linux options? Privoxy perhaps.)

BFilter user here. It hasn't been updated for about a year, the author indicates that's cos he considers it complete.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

i, personally, would give almost anything to be able to work just on linux. but for me, as a graphic designer, it's really hard to work with GIMP. tried GIMPShop too, but without any significant success. photoshop is imo so much professional piece of sw, that can never be replaced by any open-source alternative. there's so much work behind it.
and i don't say it tears me from inside.. sad

hav to agree with anonymous too, that i'd be more glad if ppl would use linux with wine than pure win..

[cz] maybe i'm paranoid, but it's better than be eaten by aliens.. ~
blog [design, net..]my portfolio [graphic design etc.]deviantArtflickr

Re: Bad tasting Wine

Maybe one day Photoshop will work on linux... it works on mac OS, there is no reason it wouldn't be possible. And even if I use linux I am not against paying for a specific soft (I think to photo treatement like lightroom, bibble (already work on linux) etc... ). I just would like that possible and not developped only for windows.

Using linux doesn't mean having every thing for free. Of course you will not have the same exigence for a free soft than for a paid one.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

Nicky wrote:

Maybe one day Photoshop will work on linux... it works on mac OS, there is no reason it wouldn't be possible. And even if I use linux I am not against paying for a specific soft (I think to photo treatement like lightroom, bibble (already work on linux) etc... ). I just would like that possible and not developped only for windows.

Using linux doesn't mean having every thing for free. Of course you will not have the same exigence for a free soft than for a paid one.

absolutely agree

[cz] maybe i'm paranoid, but it's better than be eaten by aliens.. ~
blog [design, net..]my portfolio [graphic design etc.]deviantArtflickr

Re: Bad tasting Wine

BFilter user here. It hasn't been updated for about a year, the author indicates that's cos he considers it complete.

Interesting, Toolz. This thread got me thinking again about client-side filtering. Specifically, some of Yahoo! mail's latest upgrades (instant messenging, etc.) really annoy me. None of the usual Firefox extensions (noscript, adblock plus, remove it permanently) do much for this stuff. So, I started experimenting with other options yesterday. I finally ran across a post from somebody in the prox mailing list (digest #2690) who figured out a way to get rid of the improvements. This is the first time that I used the proxomitron (Sidki's 2009 filters) via crossover to materially change my web mail (in my browsers). cool

Anyway, if you like BFilter, then you may enjoy messing with the proxomitron.

Last edited by tnylnxgy (2009-05-16 18:22:53)

Re: Bad tasting Wine

tnylnxgy wrote:

Anyway, if you like BFilter, then you may enjoy messing with the proxomitron.

As OP here is 'time sensitive' let's not worry about going too off-topic: Four or five years ago I used Privoxy, then discovered Proxomitron, then Proximodo and finally BFilter.

I can't remember my criteria but I decided on BFilter. I think I was impressed with the resource usage. These days I find myself somewhat hampered by BFilter, I'm sure it annoys me more often than it removes bugs. A shame about Proximodo - that was supposed to be a clone of Proxomitron to run multi-platform but it seems to have died.

Re: Bad tasting Wine

rigosantana3 wrote:

Wine shows microsoft that we still need them.
Thanks!

I disagree here.

WINE is actually more of an incentive to SWITCH to Linux. It offers the assurity that a user can get a superior OS, whilst still keeping familiar applications working if they CANT find an opensource / free alternative.

This is the same reason Apple released BootCamp. Users are offered the assurance that should they not find an application that works for them, there's always a plan B.

So as far as I'm concerned, WINE is actually helping people switch, and don't forget the lack of a Photoshop Linux version.

My argument also stands as a gamer. World of Warcraft, which I play extensively, doesn't have a Linux version. I would've purchased a Linux version were it available, but I'm not going to let my enjoyment go out the window because I've switched to a different / better OS.

Last edited by NuclearStr1der (2009-05-17 09:06:12)

Re: Bad tasting Wine

I can't remember my criteria but I decided on BFilter. I think I was impressed with the resource usage. These days I find myself somewhat hampered by BFilter, I'm sure it annoys me more often than it removes bugs. A shame about Proximodo - that was supposed to be a clone of Proxomitron to run multi-platform but it seems to have died.

There's an up-to-date forum about BFilter, Proximodo & the Proxomitron at http://prxbx.com/forums/ . Also, the Germans do some interesting things with the proxomitron at http://www.buerschgens.de/Prox/Seiten/D … index.html . (You may need the foxlingo Firefox extension to read it.) The prox-list at Yahoo! groups is worth a visit as well. As I mentioned before, I started using the proxomitron with Sidki's filters (in advanced mode). (Sidki has a website at http://www.geocities.com/sidki3003/prox-down.html .) OTOH, I just use the out-of-the-box German professional edition on my wife's WinXP machine. Both filter sets are current as of this year.

The usual caveats apply: I do drive image backups whenever I experiment with new stuff. smile

Last edited by tnylnxgy (2009-05-17 10:56:10)

Re: Bad tasting Wine

rigosantana3 wrote:

Members of the Linux community.
I come to you to bring light to your eyes.
WINE, commonly known as the Windows API Linux interface, Is a threat to the very nature and existence of Linux.
Wine shows microsoft that we still need them, It shows that no one has a choice but to bow to this horrifiying beast.
I will be doing a speech on youtube that calls linux users not to use wine but instead use native linux apps.
For every program under windows, I have found a better one under Linux. Total cost: $0.00

Guys- advise me on what to say during the speech. Anything will help, from tips on what to wear to opening and closing lines.
Ill be doing the speech on monday so any advice you can give will be great.
Thanks!

I agree with you for the most part... another thing to take into mind that their are some Interactive Bishoujo games, FPS, public domain software out their that source code is not available for direct porting to the *nix environment. What one might think about is possibly supporting development of more commercial grade hardware/software products geared more to the open source scene.

The thing is how many install fests GNU/open source events have you been to were you havent seen crap like windows mobile "Enhanced" smart phones, Vista laptops, i-macs and i-phones?

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
-Albert Einstein.

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