• alef
  • #! CrunchBanger
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-02-05
  • Posts: 192

Topic: software choice at OS install time

Hi,

I would like to know your opinion on one point, not specific to #! but general to many linux distros.

First of all, few words about my background and linux experience: I am an IT guy, who just moved to linux at the beginning of 2009. I have not tried a lot of distros yet, I am using #! as main distro, have installed several other ones (fedora+KDE, moblin, eeebuntu, xubuntu, jolicloud, UNR ...) in dual boot to test them, but never spent much time using them. My next target is Archlinux, I have just started to look at it and it seems interesting.

My question is about the software included in distributions. Most distros come with a number of software pre-installed, and there is never choice of applications at install time. I am thinking here about software, which is a notion that any non-advanced user understands, not about packages. Why would there not be a step at which the users would choose the software they want: eg web browser, open-office or abiword+gnumeric, skype or not, media player... Each user has specific requirements and preferences, why not letting him the choice ?

Is this absence of choice caused by missing such feature in the installer software which seems to be used in most of the distros ? I feel like this would save a lot of time to many people, who have much uninstall/reinstall tasks to perform after setting-up a distro.
There are certainly reasons that I don't know explaining current situation, could anyone tell me ?

As far as I have understood, distros such as gentoo or Arch are much more flexible and allow full customization, do you know other similar initiatives ? Is there an intermediate solution between these and ubuntu-like distros, I mean a distro installing a specified kernel, drivers, basic packages and desktop environment, leaving choice only for software users are actually launching ?

thanks for sharing your opinion on this.

Eee-PC 1000H    |  Statler r20110207 Openbox
Vaio VGN-FE21H  |  Statler r20110207 Openbox

no more proprietary OS at home, and still no printer smile
  • Registered: 2008-12-13
  • Posts: 1,480

Re: software choice at OS install time

With ubuntu you can do a minimal install and build up from there. I believe it is setup the way it is so if you want total control you can use a minimal install or use arch or another distro like that. If your the typical user you can just install the recommended desktop and the changes you need to make should be minimal.

I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.
  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 2,087

Re: software choice at OS install time

Hi Alef, a Linux "distribution" equals the kernel plus the desktop environment and a bunch of applications. A distribution should be ready to go "out of the box" and fully usable as a Live CD, in my opinion.

A "minimal install" on the other hand has nothing pre-installed and lets you install exactly what you want. The Ubuntu minimal install instructions are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Insta … /MinimalCD

Crunchbang goes one step farther and provides a "Lite" version with only the desktop environment and a few core applications. (Ubuntu does not provide this option.)

If you want different applications, you can add/remove using Synaptic or the command line. In other words, if you want OpenOffice in #!, you add it post-install. It's not hard.

Crunchbang is fine the way it is, is my opinion. smile

  • alef
  • #! CrunchBanger
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-02-05
  • Posts: 192

Re: software choice at OS install time

thanks for your feedback.


snowpine wrote:

If you want different applications, you can add/remove using Synaptic or the command line. In other words, if you want OpenOffice in #!, you add it post-install. It's not hard.

i know this is possible and not that difficult, but my idea was about providing linux newbies a better system easily.
Current process for most distros, for a user not familiar with linux software but willing to get specific software

  1. install a distro with all its apps

  2. search information on the internet about currently installed software, existing ones in the market, comparison of them.

  3. remove (many) un-necessary apps and add new needed ones using the package management tool

For a minimal install distro process would almost be the same, saving the "removing apps" step, which is quite good already.

my idea was this process as an enhancement of current ones:

  1. install a distro with apps selection during install step. each software is presented with its full name (newbies don't care about packages names) and description.

time-consuming operations are saved for the distro-user. Would it be complicated to generate the packages list to install according to the users' choice ?

snowpine wrote:

Crunchbang is fine the way it is, is my opinion. smile

#! is more than fine, it is just great smile

Eee-PC 1000H    |  Statler r20110207 Openbox
Vaio VGN-FE21H  |  Statler r20110207 Openbox

no more proprietary OS at home, and still no printer smile
  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: software choice at OS install time

While i guess it could be a nice feature for some, its just a simple command which is why it hasn't been added yet. Especially when you get a bit more advanced, you could write a script that'd take off all the programs you dont want when you install.

Oh no, it has skype. Sudo apt-get remove skype... done.
I guess to me it just seems like something that isnt important.

just call me...
~FSM~
  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 2,087

Re: software choice at OS install time

If the user is a "linux newbie" who doesn't know much about the different available applications, then they should trust the distro developer's judgement. smile There are tens of thousands of packages in the Ubuntu repos; a #! install would balloon from an easy  20 minute process to a multi-hour ordeal if we had to read through lists and decide which apps to include. The key (in my opinion) is to give the new user a fully-functional desktop as quickly as possible so they get hooked. Once they see the beauty of the system,  they can spend hours tinkering (like we all do).

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: software choice at OS install time

Snowpine, the way I see it, this option wouldn't show all the packages etc. , it'd just be more of a general list.
It could be as easy as a list with tick boxes, and broad catagories
such as:

Web Browser
Instant Messenger
Image Editing

of course you could include the actual name of the program (e.g. Pidgin or Gimp, or Firefox), but it would be newbie friendly that way.

just call me...
~FSM~
  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 2,087

Re: software choice at OS install time

Just to play "devil's advocate"...

Why is important that every application be useful to every user? For example, I have never personally used Fonty Python, but I don't feel that having it there diminishes my enjoyment of CrunchBang.