crunchbang 9.10 release (Page 6 of 10)

To answer your questions from your larger post, mesmith, regarding our distro cheering, for some it's a bit like worshipping your favorite sports team: a sickness of sorts. But there are positive sides as well.

If you stick with a distro of your liking, chances are you will be rewarded by learning certain aspects of the software very well from that standpoint. The composer Stravinski once pointed out that we are only set free by our chains, a lesson I have taken all of my life to learn and still need to review from time to time. The meaning is, if you continually play with everything, you will spread out like an amoeba. To grow up, to evolve, you must begin to branch out from a central location, i.e. learn within set boundaries. (It's early here, and I hope I'm making sense.)

To learn about individual applications, you will find that most apps also have a communtiy around them.  But your distro may implement the app in a very distro specific way, not just for the 'look' of that distro, but also so that it functions in a way that fits the philosophy and goals of that distro.

There are even varied implementations of the kernel itself. (!)

Give yourself time to learn. Sometimes you hear a thing a gazillion times before the light bulb goes off, and then you say to yourself, "Ah, no wonder they do that!"

The Linux journey takes years, and it's changing all the time. But it's never boring, if you're that sort of person.

Hi Mesmith, I used to be confused by this, too, until I wrapped my head around how Ubuntu works: It is a tsted, stable "whole," not a collection of "parts." In other words, you aren't using "Linux 2.6.24, Gnome 2.22, Firefox 3.0, Openoffice 2.4, etc." ... you're just using "Ubuntu 8.04." If you're using 8.04, and I'm using 8.04, we have all the same "stuff." This is why a lot of people (especially in "enterprise" situations like a big company) choose the LTS releases--it is a guarantee that every computer in the office is going to have a consistent, stable, well-supported unchanging "suite" of applications for the next 3 years. IT guys hate surprises!

This is a very different mindset from running an 8 year old OS (Windows XP) with random versions of different applications that were current whenever you downloaded them and may or may not conflict with each other.

Now, in practice, there are many ways to get newer applications in Ubuntu. You can enable backports, add an application-specific PPA, download a .deb, or build from source. So anyone who says "Ubuntu LTS has old applications with no way to update them" hasn't done the research. Keep in mind however that when you add newer applications and software sources, you make your system less stable. If you're careful and only use trusted sources, you'll probably be okay, but if you do things "the Windows Way" and download a whole bunch of apps from random websites, you've negated the main benefit of using an LTS release: stability.

It's also worth mentioning again that not all Linux distributions work this way. Some distros (like Debian Testing) are "rolling release," which means you do get newer versions of your applications automatically. Both systems are valid, just targeted at different types of user.

@Ronin

very nicely put, and very true. Distro hoppong can get very confusing at times. :-)

failure is only a negative way to describe a learning experience.
i am constantly learning.

Perhaps you are right in every instance, but the reason I wanted an updated Abiword was that the help system was broken in 8.10.  That's not a minor bug.  I queried Abiword and they said it was a distro error, not theirs.  I filed a bug report with Ubuntu (Xubuntu) and it was accepted.  That was a year ago.  The help system was still broken in 9.04 when I updated.  I used the Insert command, then chose Page Numbers, then hit the Help button.  Bang.  Wrong path to local help.  Yes, it is possible to go online and get help, but when you are on the road this isn't always practical.

I appreciate your comments and desire to help me understand linux applications.

nice idea. I'd like to have that in other distros.

If that's true one must compare the Jackalope to ME.
*puting on flame suit as well*

Have a nave one.
Bruce

This is an excellent response to Mesmith's question but I would add one further consideration:

Many Linux applications do not work totally independently but often rely on other associated programs and libraries, referred to as dependencies.  These all have their own particular versions with their own particular characteristics.  Some are backwards compatible but may have new features that are not.

Ubuntu is so reliable because much effort is made to ensure that all these dependencies work with each other correctly for any given Ubuntu release.

If applications intended for use in a different Ubuntu release are installed, they may not work correctly with the existing installed dependencies.  Even worse, the package manager may try to replace them with new dependencies, making the system then potentially unstable with other applications.  This can get you into what is called "dependency hell", where application "A" depends on application "B" which in turn requires application "C" etc.

By sticking to the applications intended for a given Ubuntu release, these problems can be avoided and your system should be as reliable as possible.  Any other applications should be installed only with great caution and regard for the consequences!

i agree that would be very cool

failure is only a negative way to describe a learning experience.
i am constantly learning.

yeah i have heard that almost everyone else has run into problems but this new set up that karmic has seriously fits my laptop, not so much the desktop. i have noticed problems with the very quick shutdown not killing all processes properly leaving them useless once the reboot was complete. i guess for myself im just going to build my laptop up from base, i cant stand all the flashing and emblems and crap its really giving me a head ache.

failure is only a negative way to describe a learning experience.
i am constantly learning.

Anything #! would be based off of id try out and learn.

I can see im one of the few that hasnt had any major problems with Karmic.
I have a AMD64 and the screen did flicker,,But was able to fix that in the Nvidia settings software that came stock in Karmic 64 bit.

Pretty much any linux Distro ive ever installed from there releases date has had glitches,,But ive learned to overcome and adapt,,Or just prey for an update to fix it,,,LOL

my summation from these posts is that we may be approaching, in the not too distant future, a community edition of #!.
I, for one, am wondering how a #! based on slackware, could be like. Again, not expressing dissatisfaction with #!, just innovative curiosity. As is the case with many other leading linux distros, the collective aspirations of the devoted community members, have lead to some positive and engaging endeavors. Puppy and Mandriva and Mint come to mind. There certainly are many gifted members in this community forum, which under the founder's guidance, could conceptualize and realize a dream system....ahhh....the beauty of daydreaming.

Last edited by neerseer (2009-12-01 19:28:45)

You should get an external drive and then just keep your data there. You won't need to keep moving it then