Flawed approach in crunchbang-desktop & co.

Hello EmaRsk

I appreciate your concerns and fully understand why you have raised this as an issue. The state of the current desktop packages are not ideal, but every effort is being made to modify the packages so that they comply with the Debian policy for packaging. For what it is worth, the packages are a hang-up from the first release, which was never really intended to be used by anyone other than myself. I can honestly say, I never thought for one moment that the release would grow into what it has become. I will be working on the packages again this weekend, hopefully I will remove all legacy hacks and improve the packages so that they comply with the Debian way of doing things.

As for:

Again, I fully understand and agree with what you have said and I will make every effort to improve the current packages, but consider this fact, while CrunchBang relies on both Debian and Ubuntu, it is actually neither. Thank you again for your constructive feedback, it really is appreciated!

flicck, this is a case of the author being aware of how things should be done, but for whatever reason, choosing to do it a different way. Regarding the implications/consequences, I would like to inform you that there is nothing to worry about, but that would be remiss of me; it is for you to decide, the files in question are all available for inspection and you are welcome to satisfy any curiosities you may have.

Final note (although I am sure this thread has the potential to run): The files being discussed are mainly customisations to existing configuration files created/installed by packages coming from the Ubuntu repositories. The current desktop-packages contain a tarball which is extracted to /usr/share/CrunchBang. Files extracted to this directory are then copied to their respective homes by way of a post installation script. As pointed out by EmaRsk, this is not standard practice. Since the original release, the desktop packages have been modified/changed on numerous occasions and reduced in size as files have been moved out of the desktop packages and into packages of their own. The process is ongoing and eventually the desktop packages should in fact contain/install a single data file, "/etc/crunchbang-lsb-release".

If anyone has any concerns about what is being discussed here, please do feel free to post any questions.

Yes.

There is currently no release schedule in place. So far I have tried to follow the Ubuntu releases, but due to the limited resources/time I am not able to guarantee when a release comes out. If I do not make any promises, I cannot break them. Seriously though, a new project has been created on Launchpad, it is still early days but hopefully this type of query will be discussed and something more concrete put in place. If more people come aboard to help out with package creation and what not, a solid release schedule could become a reality.

Hence we get back to the idea of a launchpad team and looking for packagers to help share the work load.

I agree with sewmyheadon...I don't know anything about packaging but would be willing to learn.

I like the Arch approach...list all the packages and let folks pick the ones that they want to maintain. That way you get folks involved with packages that they actively want to see maintained and get better.

Michael

THAT was the phrase I was looking for...I spent 5 minutes trying to get that phrase, and never did.

Thanks,
Michael

corenominal : the reason I'm interested in this topic so much is pure self-interest : my "ideal dream linux distro" for years has been something that uses .debs/dpkg/APT, has newer software than Debian Stable but fewer showstopper bugs than Debian Unstable ( and even Testing shortly after a new Stable release is out ) and that allows for seamless upgrades between releases. Ubuntu has been very close to that for me, but never quite -- upgrading to new versions of the distro have always been problematic enough for me that fresh installs just worked better ( which was how I got interested in keeping separate /data partitions so my music, pictures, and such were always readily available ). Unless I'm mistaken, the issues being discussed in this thread are the reason there need to be "upgrade instructions" between releases of #!, as seems to be evidenced here : http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/6795/#p6795

#! is ridiculously close to how I'd set up a desktop Linux system out of the box. The community is terrific. I'd love to watch this last tipping point for me, well, get tipped, so to speak. Again, total self-interest. So as to NOT just be a thoroughly selfish jerk, I see that you plan to address these issues with the packaging for the next release, and seeing as I've wanted to learn the nuts and bolts of Debian packaging but hadn't had any real impetus to learn ( everything I'm interested in running has already been neatly packaged up by someone ), I'd love to help/contribute to the resolution of these packaging issues. How best could I help you out?

With the current growing interest in this distribution (I recall at one point you didn't even like to refer to it as a distribution since it was your personal spin on Openbox+Ubuntu), I think your priorities are in good order, Philip.

I am just a tad concerned you may become overwhelmed with your success and become overworked on a project you originally didn't intend to grow so "large".

Thank you both for your concern. I have to admit that I am finding it quite difficult to keep track lately; I enjoy these forums immensely and there was a time when I could at least read every topic, if not reply to most. This is now becoming an impossibility and I am finding I can longer offer the kind of personal support I once could when the project existed as a personal venture. While this makes me a little bit sad, I am also happy to see the community growing and I have noticed that members are more than willing to help each other out with their queries/problems, which is fantastic as it allows me time to work on all the existing bugs, flaws and new developments.

Yes, I'd have to agree. It seems only a few week ago (actually it was)  that I could easily check in on every thread and keep up with what was happening. Growth has been rapid lately but as you say support is being picked up admirably by the community

corenominal : for what it's worth, I doubt if #! would be under such scrutiny if it wasn't attracting interest far and wide. And it deserves the interest, you've made a distro that I think strikes the perfect balance between revelling in geekery and ease of use, which is a balancing act that takes technical and aesthetic chops that I certainly don't have. I'll look into joining the Crunchbangers after I've read up on the Ubuntu wiki about packaging -- Nik Doof rightly points out that it would be a good idea for people to join only if they're really going to get on with actually doing something tangible for the project.

Or, to put it more simply : thank you, sir, for making such a terrific distro and letting all of us tinker with your stroke of genius.