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#1 2013-01-03 08:53:35

Resident Bot
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Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I use AwesomeWM as it has a good status bar that works out of the box
I noticie a lot of folks that use tiling wm's dont use one!
How do you manage without?
I find it very convenient to rightclick on a running apps icon to chose to quit it,
Also just to glance at the status bar to see whats running - so for instance if Kupfer is running I dont waste time tyring to run it when it's already running.
Also they are sometimes a good visual as to what an app is doing. With Dropbox I can tell by the icon if it is still uploading or if it has finished.
and with the sound icon I can click it to adjust volume
How do you guys manage!

Last edited by Resident Bot (2013-01-03 09:48:03)


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#2 2013-01-03 09:25:06

fatmac
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

Easy, the standard WM is Openbox; if downloading, a download window pops up (Iceweasel); volume control via the icon (top right).

Other apps icons park in the bar (tint2) at the top when minimised. No problem to see if an app is running.

And of course we have conky, which shows the various status of machine parts (CPU usage, disk usage, & can be configured for other things), sitting on the desktop.

Last edited by fatmac (2013-01-03 09:28:05)


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#3 2013-01-03 09:49:37

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

Sorry FatMac - I meant folks who use tiling wm's  like i3   I know openbox and fluxbox etc have a statusbar. I changed the title of the post to make it more clear


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#4 2013-01-03 11:08:04

Doomicide
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I don't use programs that need a systray (i.e. Dropbox). If I'd need them I'd propably just use a standalone-tray. As to what is running, it's a tiling wm, I see everything that's running. With multiple workspaces minimizing is obsolete and misses the point of a tiling wm imo. Same goes for clicking, I like my setup to be keyboard-based (except sometimes I want to browse the web like a lazy slob and just use the mouse). The dwm statusbar gives me all the info I need, but I could manage without. Volume is also done with keybinds + a notification program. So if you want system-info you can also just use h/top. Overall, notifications can pretty much replace statusbar-functionality + they show the information only when it's relevant.


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#5 2013-01-03 12:34:58

servingwater
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

^ What he said!  smile

Furthermore alot of the tiling wm's have their own status bar already anyway.
i3 for example has a bar with a tray and workspaces and with i3status all sys info displayed.

But yes like "Doomicide" already said, the point of tiling wm's usually is to keep mouse interaction to a minimum anyway.
And if your tile of choice should not happen to have a status bar, there is always conky and dzen.

Last edited by servingwater (2013-01-03 12:35:33)

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#6 2013-01-03 12:54:54

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

well I do like to see at a glance if kupfer is running - opening htop would take time
also somtimes to see an icon is reasuring that the app launched sucessfully like Dropbox
Doomicide said " it's a tiling wm, I see everything that's running"
realy so small apps like kupfer would get their own window? or guake? they dont with awesome and they didn't show up when I tried i3


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#7 2013-01-03 12:55:44

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

i3 does have a status bar with a tray, which will include (dependant on the user) a  dropbox applet, volume applet, battery applet, network manager applet, pidgin  if running, etc.  I   have keybinds for volume and battery meter in the conky.  I3 is cool, b/c you can set tray output to none if you don't want it to show b/c it will show any applets you have set to autostart.   As far as running apps, I don't need them.  Personally I think its a bit ridiculous.  I know what I have open, I know what workspace they're on, I don't need to have a tray for it.   Plus  using the tiling wm and workspaces as it was intended really negates the need for a tray of running apps. For closing apps, each wm will have keybindings for closing apps.  For i3 its mod+shift+q.


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#8 2013-01-03 13:23:03

gutterslob
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

I use AwesomeWM as it has a good status bar that works out of the box

Awesome is a DE =P


ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

I notice a lot of folks that use tiling wm's dont use one!
How do you manage without?

Actually, quite a few tiling WMs do come with a status bar. Just not the type you get with Awesome. Most just limit themselves to displaying workspace/tag info, tiling layout and whatever stats/info you choose to pipe via scripts or conky. For my own use, the bare minimum is fine.


ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

I find it very convenient to rightclick on a running apps icon to chose to quit it,

I generally avoid mouse use as much as possible, so this isn't a requirement for me.


ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

Also just to glance at the status bar to see whats running - so for instance if Kupfer is running I don't waste time tyring to run it when it's already running.

It's a valid reason. I can live without this, as I would like to think I still retain some semblance of short-term memory. Besides, I'm the one that configured what apps auto run in what workspaces, so it all "automatically" comes back to me. I guess it's just a matter of familiarity.


ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

Also they are sometimes a good visual as to what an app is doing. With Dropbox I can tell by the icon if it is still uploading or if it has finished.

Again, a valid point, but one I can't really relate to all that much. I tend not to use apps that employ a systray icon. If I really wanted to show what some apps were doing (like rtorrent or mpd), I'd cook up a script that piped their info to the status bar or set up urgency hints if available.


and with the sound icon I can click it to adjust volume

I'd just use keybindings for alsamixer. If I needed a display of some sort for the volume levels, I could just have almixer info piped to the status bar.


How do you guys manage!

I seem to get by. Can't speak for everyone, though. Horses for courses, as they say.

Last edited by gutterslob (2013-01-03 13:26:34)


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#9 2013-01-03 13:29:07

Doomicide
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

Ok, I see we have a different way of computing. wink

ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

well I do like to see at a glance if kupfer is running opening htop would take time

I have htop running in tmux all the time. A simple bash loop or similar could also check for it in 'ps aux ' or 'pidof'-output, but maybe that'd be overengineering.

ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

also somtimes to see an icon is reasuring that the app launched sucessfully like Dropbox

As long as you use apps with sys-tray icons you propably should use a systray, that's true. What other apps would fall into this category? If I'm not sure if something's running I usually just do a 'pidof'.

ChickenPie4Tea wrote:

Doomicide said " it's a tiling wm, I see everything that's running"
realy so small apps like kupfer would get their own window? or guake? they dont with awesome and they didn't show up when I tried i3

That's true I didn't think of programs that don't open a window. On the other hand I personally never used one that appears in the task-bar but doesn't (directly) on the screen. So that's no issue for me.


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#10 2013-01-03 15:13:54

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

dkeg wrote
"3 does have a status bar with a tray, which will include (dependant on the user) a  dropbox applet, volume applet, battery applet, network manager applet, pidgin  if running, etc."
I have just installed i3 lately from syanptic but it doesn't show any running apps - wish it did then I might have given it more of a test.
I just think that for the tiny amount of space it uses a system tray is worth having. Awesome has a bar at the top anyway to show workspaces so might as well use a tiny bit of it at the top right to show running apps - it's a tiny amount of space and doesn't get in the way. Some people populate their bar with all sorts of text about the date - wifi connection etc etc.


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#11 2013-01-03 16:05:49

servingwater
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

i3 wm has a systray

http://i3wm.org/docs/userguide.html#_configuring_i3bar

Of course it will only show programs (apps) which are supposed to be in the tray.
For example wicd-client, volwheel, skype etc.

For other running programs you need a terminal windows.

The rest of the bar is as you already pointed out usually for statuses of some kind and workspaces.

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#12 2013-01-03 16:47:01

gensym
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

@ChickenPie4Tea
The tray is included in i3 version 4.0 onwards (as far as I can remember).
If the package in the repos is an older version of i3, it won't have this feature.
If i3 doesn't suit your needs you can go with wmii-hg. It can be a bit tricky to compile but it is extremely solid, extendible and has a system tray.

Last edited by gensym (2013-01-03 16:52:53)


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#13 2013-01-03 18:29:26

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

ok yes you can get a status bar to work with i3 - got it working now - it just didn't work out of the box and I didn't find the wiki useful but thanks to a thread on Crunchbang I realized what i needed to go.


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#14 2013-01-09 19:40:28

s.hum
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I think a lot of people use tiling wm's to squeeze every last bit of visual real estate -- so the system tray looses out if you don't really need it. And as tiling wm's don't rely on a typical menu bar to share the systray space, the lost systray space becomes even more apparent on large screens. I use a few apps that have tray icons but they aren't necessary for their utilization e.g. synapse launcher, autokey, clipit, etc. These apps are most effectively used with their hot keys so I don't bother with triggering the app with a mouse.

S

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#15 2013-01-09 20:50:05

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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

Well as i do have a bar at the top in i3 that shows the workspace labels it makes sense to use a tiny bit at the far right to show the time and usually 4 tray icons.
How do you manage with progs like Parcellite?  I think having a tray is convenient and it hardly takes any space - unless of course you had no bar at all.


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#16 2013-01-12 01:37:39

s.hum
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I use clipit which is a fork of parcellite and use the hotkey to access the clipboard buffer menu to select the history buffer I desire (I believe you can set the hotkey for this in parcellite). With some applets, if you are in the habit of needing to open their preference settings, this can sometimes be problematic if there is no hotkey to do so (or you can't remember) -- this can require launching the applet a second time to open its preferences (or, failing that, editing the applet's config file or temporarily switching wm's). It's not been an issue for me as I've not had to do so.

S

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#17 2013-01-15 04:48:59

Digit
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

smile

i'll chime in with my responce to the op.

well, lets see....  i'll set the scene...

i was an avid kde3.5 user, most of all, for kicker.  i had, somewhere in the region of a dozen+ kicker bars on my triple-monitor workstation.  each filled with just about every kind of useful trinket and whirlybob available.  ... then i went to xmonad, with none.

just bare xmonad.

how did i survive making such an extreme change?

very happily.  heck, not only did i survive, i thrived!

i found my productivity actually increased!

and you mentioned the ease of closing apps... well, for the most part, it was quicker and cleaner in xmonad.  with whatever window i wanted closed in focus, a press of the simple keybind, and bam, it's gone.   far easier than the fiddly mess of moving the cursor to a little icon, right clicking, and... what then is it you do? navigate a further menu to click on close?  good grief, that's conveluted.  i would at least have set up middle click to insta-close it.  wink

i've explored a few different configurations in xmonad, one of which, involved re-integrating tint2 into my desktop (cos the grass was greener).  i was very pleased when i accomplished that.  was a bit of a challenge.  and the result worked remarkably well.  so there i had tint2 again, but now in xmonad... and you know what?  i barely used it.   ok, sure i did use it some, like when i wanted that lazy one-handed mode, and there were times i felt grateful for it, and the ability to middle click to kill apps.   ... but for the most part, the vast most part, it was the less efficient way.  xmonad handled it much nicer.

that was a while ago, and have since had at least a couple spats back in openbox, and a large chunk of time spent in clfswm, and i3 (both times, similar case of not missing the bar at all), and am now back on xmonad, with a fairly more radical config, involving (among other things) tabbed sublayouts.
... and therein i again can rely on middle clicking on [the tabs of] apps i want to close.  swift and painless.  and of course i still have simple keybinds to close focussed apps even quicker.

as for further information the bar displays....  try living without it for a while...  see what it's like.   even a crazy leaves-everything-open-and-cluttered-ist like me, with 9 workspaces (even in openbox, or this new xmonad config with tabbed sublayouts), still manages to more than adequately keep track of where everything is.

and further, i've just added the basic gridselect extension to xmonad now too... so i've even more means at my disposal for navigating to apps, like incase i want to close it [as well as for launching apps].

how do i manage you ask....

very, very well.   very happily.

... and to think i used to have around half a monitor's worth of kicker-bars. heeh!


p.s.
i might go implement that on-the-fly xmonad/openbox switching script, or re-implement tint2 in xmonad and add window decorations, so i can have a full-on lazy one-hand mode at my disposal too...  not that i feel much need for it.

p.p.s (thnx for this thread, i enjoyed that)

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#18 2013-01-15 11:47:31

dkeg
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

+1 Digit. 

Don't lose sight of the reason behind tiling wm.   Minimilism with high functionality.   Give it time using them in their intended mannor, then decide what's best for you.


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#19 2013-01-16 10:16:21

flyingfree
Member
Registered: 2013-01-11
Posts: 26

Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I use awesome wm. On my panel/statusbar I only have cpu and other statuses of my computer and the tags.
Everything other like applications menu and the windows that are open or minimized I have a keyboard shortcut assigned. So I don't really have to use a panel or a status bar. So that's that.
You can configure every keybinding. Simple as that.

Last edited by flyingfree (2013-01-16 10:17:08)

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#20 2013-01-16 18:32:25

Digit
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

i totally agree with the dkeg's "give it time".
i usually say a fortnight, for your first move to a tiling window manager.  it will likely take about a week before you've really learned the basic controls, and two weeks to really start to get comfortable, carving out and finding your own workflow patterns.  after the first week, you should start to really see the point, the power, the workflow boon, and after the second week, you'll have started to really fly and be fluent, it becoming second nature.   clfswm, i say a bit longer, maybe 4 weeks.  i3 might be less, similar fluency maybe in a week.  some will take less to start to 'get' but longer to master because of their cushy mousey convenience, like awesome.  every individual will take to it differently (like vi users will be quick to pick up the ones with vi-like default keybind layouts), but a fortnight' a good average.

when you come from a world of stcking wm, where everything's layed out and controled via a panel, and it's this externalised visual clicky paradigm, it can take a bit of an adjustment to go to then internalise the organisation, with minimal visual cues, and get used to not needing things to click on, nor extra gui navigational representations.  but your brain will develope that ability fairly quickly, and you'll really come to love that way of doing things.  smile

ps, sorry, i know i can go on and on about tiling window management for days and days.  XD  it's a joyous passion i want others to experience and share in the boons of.

Last edited by Digit (2013-01-16 18:33:30)

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#21 2013-01-16 21:12:23

wuxmedia
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From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
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Re: Tiling WM's--how do you manage without a proper status bar?!

I'm enjoying i3 - and the status bar+systray.
for volume i have media keys.
i'm starting to mod+1 or 2 in MATE now glasses

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