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#1 2013-03-18 19:03:53

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

In general, the Plymouth boot splash under wheezy/waldorf is problematic.  It does not work "out of the box" with some display managers.  In other cases, the transition from the splash screen to login screen includes boot messages that should be obscured.

Slim

As supplied in the wheezy repositories, the plymouth package does not work with slim.  Even applying this solution (Plymouth Plus Slim), boot messages can leak onto the virtual terminal before X starts unless you tweak the timing for your specific machine and plymouth theme.

Lightdm

Plymouth works with the lightdm package, but a few messages from the init scripts leak onto the virtual terminal before X starts.  The transition is not seamless.

MDM

The display manager mdm, a fork of gdm, appears to provide a better solution. While not part of the Debian repositories, a package is available in the Linux Mint Debian Edition (see http://packages.linuxmint.com/pool/main/m/mdm/ ). LMDE is based on and entirely compatible with Debian wheezy and hence waldorf too.  Mdm can use any gdm theme, including the one from statler.  And unlike lightdm or slim, the transition from plymouth to mdm is seamless - no boot messages leak onto the virtual terminal before X starts.  Themes for mdm/gdm are far more easily customized and offer more features than lightdm (lightdm-gtk-greeter) while utilising GTK2 themes.  Highly recommended.

See also:
Plymouth Plus Slim
Plymouth - Ugly Closing Splash

Last edited by cpoakes (2013-03-18 19:10:24)


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#2 2013-03-18 20:28:33

crash_harddrive
Member
From: Troy, Ohio
Registered: 2013-01-26
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

I guess the question I have is why plymouth? As a minimalist distro, CrunchBang shows the bootup in text mode, and I see that as an advantage. I like the ability to see what starts and if there are error messages, something a boot splash hides in many cases. Not to say that a pretty splash screen isn't cool from an eye candy perspective, but I believe in the KISS principle and that is what CrunchBang excels at. I've done a fair bit of hackery over bootup graphics in the past, but I find I prefer the simplicity of the default text mode. Just my $0.02.


Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly or idiot-friendly.

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#3 2013-03-18 21:30:37

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

crash_harddrive wrote:

I guess the question I have is why plymouth?

Your arguments stand, but this is yet another example of how Slim doesn't handle stuff as well as other display managers do. The easiest route would be to ditch it for LightDM, since that one does pretty much everything right. 

I mean, this is on top of Slim eating hundreds of gigabytes of music and stuff.

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#4 2013-03-19 02:56:06

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

crash_harddrive wrote:

I guess the question I have is why plymouth? ...

If your question is "Why should plymouth be included in the standard installation?", my answer is it shouldn't.  I  appreciate the minimalism.   I voted to keep #! small enough to fit on a CD.  And the point of my post is informational, for others who want to use plymouth and may have had difficulties. 

However, if the question is "Why use plymouth at all?" then WARNING RANT AHEAD.  I tire of people questioning MY decision to utilise plymouth.  The cognoscenti know to ignore the unnecessary affirmations and bogus warnings spewed during bootstrap.   However, as a Linux Evangelist I regularly drag out my laptop and crank it up in front of naive users to show them I don't need windows and neither do they.  At such times, introducing the linux experience by saying, "Just ignore this wall of text.  You might need it someday, but 99% of the time you don't.  And those warnings, they are bogus," goes over like a turd in a punchbowl.

If you remove the hood (bonnet) to expose your car's engine and pull the pretty panels off your dash to expose the guts, it won't affect how your car performs - but everyone will still think it's broken.

Last edited by cpoakes (2013-03-19 03:24:53)


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#5 2013-03-19 03:01:16

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
Website

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

^ One never needs to explain why they use anything, IMO.  If you like plymouth (or not) no one has any right at all to say anything to you. If they do spew BS, it is just another form of leetism.

BTW, I like the reason why you chose to use plymouth, sounds logical to me

Also, I agree with el_k on lightdm, it does do everything right


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

I dev VSIDO

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#6 2013-03-19 03:34:23

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,008
Website

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

cpoakes wrote:

...I regularly drag out my laptop and crank it up in front of naive users to show them I don't need windows and neither do they.  At such times, introducing the linux experience by saying, "Just ignore this wall of text.  You might need it someday, but 99% of the time you don't.  And those warnings, they are bogus," goes over like a turd in a punchbowl.

Exactly!

Anyway, there's nothing morally wrong with eye candy, or having your car resprayed for that matter.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator

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#7 2013-03-19 10:19:24

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

cpoakes wrote:

However, as a Linux Evangelist I regularly drag out my laptop and crank it up in front of naive users to show them I don't need windows and neither do they.  At such times, introducing the linux experience by saying, "Just ignore this wall of text.  You might need it someday, but 99% of the time you don't.  And those warnings, they are bogus," goes over like a turd in a punchbowl.

In my experience, people seem intrigued by the boot text when they see it. I guess everybody is tired of the XP progress bar. Though there's nothing wrong with Plymouth, there are some pretty nice boot screens. I like the spinner one the best, especially with the new GDM, the backgrounds are the same color.

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#8 2013-04-05 13:59:12

Guey
New Member
Registered: 2013-04-05
Posts: 1

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

Hi, Thanks for the idea. I installed MDM like you suggested and both plymouth and MDM load fine, but i still get the following text between both:

Crunchbang Linux Waldorf Crunchbang tty1
Crunchbang Login:

This is the same as with LightDM and Slim. Any idea on how to get rid of this text?

Thanks!

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#9 2013-04-05 14:09:43

kiiroitori
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tokyo, Japan
Registered: 2010-12-07
Posts: 229

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

el_koraco wrote:

I mean, this is on top of Slim eating hundreds of gigabytes of music and stuff.

This made me smile (I am way too old to LOL).
Then I felt bad for all the new users who wouldn't get it...so here it is http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=166999


I love #! more than my own kids. I told them and they sympathized.

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#10 2013-04-09 19:44:31

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

Guey wrote:

Hi, Thanks for the idea. I installed MDM like you suggested and both plymouth and MDM load fine, but i still get the following text between both:

Crunchbang Linux Waldorf Crunchbang tty1
Crunchbang Login:

This is the same as with LightDM and Slim. Any idea on how to get rid of this text?

I recall encountering a similar behaviour in my quest for a "clean" boot, possibly associated with the "text" theme.  However, I  cannot replicate it using plymouth/MDM on my laptop/nvidia system or my desktop/intel system with either the "text" or "script" (CB version) themes.


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#11 2013-04-09 20:32:30

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Plymouth Plus MDM - A Better Display Manager

Update

Plymouth plus MDM is not a perfect solution.  While my startup is devoid of superfluous messages, sometimes MDM starts the X session on vt7 (Ctrl-Alt-F7) but more often it starts on vt8 (Ctrl-Alt-F8).  Utilizing vt8 is "normal behaviour" for MDM (and also the original GDM) when X fails to start on vt7 or cannot access the vt7 device.  This only becomes an issue when changing between virtual terminals.

Initially I suspected the nouveau DRM driver was slow to relinquish the device as plymouth was quitting.  But the problem also occurs (less frequently) on intel video.   Linux Mint is sheparding MDM and utilizes it as their primary display manager in combination with plymouth (albeit for a blank black screen).  Testing a default Mint (Maya) installation on the same system exhibits the same behaviour; the issue is not specific to the version/configuration of plymouth distributed with wheezy/waldorf.


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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