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#51 2013-04-17 22:35:13

dura
Bloated Gimp
From: interzone
Registered: 2012-09-15
Posts: 2,108

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

^I have installed systemd on bbq proof and it is noticeably faster than init, if you're interested in that sort of thing. I like the organization of/by systemd. Systemd worked no hassle after adding parameter to grub.

To the point, in systemd it is very easy to control what starts up.

sudo systemctl start dhcpcd@wlp2s0.service

for example.

sytemd-analyze blame

is another tool for that sort of thing, if that's your game.

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#52 2013-04-17 22:47:14

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

^ Did you compile it yourself? If not, wasn`t this a issue for you?

Quote: "It was not noticeable faster. That's because Debian's systemd honors /etc/rcS.d/ and /etc/rc2.d/. Every file in those directories are made implicitly into systemd services and started. But all of those files use lots of shell script magic, which make them slow."

I`m having a hard time beliving that it could boot faster for me. I`m at bbq trollinger now, and it already  boots insanely fast on my ssd. Anyway, systemd will become the default, so I might as well start trying to get familiar with it. Any pointers for me? Should I try to compile like it`s done here? http://www.holgerschurig.de/linux/systemd.html

It looks a bit complicated:)

Last edited by ew (2013-04-17 22:48:11)


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#53 2013-04-17 22:50:36

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Netctl anyone? big_smile

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#54 2013-04-17 22:56:29

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DebianJoe wrote:

Netctl anyone? big_smile

Huh, don`t throw around words like that, I had to check it out:)

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl


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#55 2013-04-17 23:06:11

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Ooops. I tried to install systemd, but it was already installed, and activated in the kernel-parameters. So I guess that I`m using Systemd already. No wonder that I found bbq trollinger to be booting insanely fast. I`m a bit embarassed, but so be it  lol

Edit: Because it`s already used in linuxbbq, I tried installing Systemd for Waldorf. Easy peasy. Works like a charm. It was already booting fast on my SSD, but Systemd possibly shaved off a second or two on my boot time, but the shutdown-time was significantly improved. With Systemd, it`s almost instant. Yes, this is probably the way to go, and people who doesn`t like it, can always remove the kernel parameter, and boot with init as before. Thums up for Systemd smile

Last edited by ew (2013-04-17 23:30:19)


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#56 2013-04-18 01:38:52

douglas
#! CrunchBanger
From: Dallas, Texas
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 230

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

I think so.  It seems to be the "future" of Linux init's.  Arch handled it pretty well, for a rolling distro anyway.

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#57 2013-04-18 03:53:31

DapperMe17
#! CrunchBanger
From: Todd's Gang
Registered: 2012-10-19
Posts: 221

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

ew wrote:

Edit: Because it`s already used in linuxbbq, I tried installing Systemd for Waldorf. Easy peasy. Works like a charm. It was already booting fast on my SSD, but Systemd possibly shaved off a second or two on my boot time, but the shutdown-time was significantly improved. With Systemd, it`s almost instant. Yes, this is probably the way to go, and people who doesn`t like it, can always remove the kernel parameter, and boot with init as before. Thums up for Systemd smile

Last edited by ew (Yesterday 23:30:19)

ew,

Can you detail your addition to grub?

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#58 2013-04-18 04:49:47

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

ew wrote:

Huh, don`t throw around words like that, I had to check it out:)

I had just finished migrating one of my Arch boxes over manually to netctl, I had to throw it out there.  The idea that something is "using systemd" is still a bit hazy.  Every few weeks, I seem to be moving more processes into true systemd.  I'm starting to wonder how much could possibly be left.  I am left assuming that if I'm still migrating processes on Kernel 3.8.7-1, that there's more to come for everyone.

You've got to love the Arch, "We're telling you to do this now...so from this point on we're going to assume that you read the warnings and the man pages.  If you didn't, well, tough!" message.

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#59 2013-04-18 06:51:25

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DebianJoe wrote:

Netctl anyone? big_smile

Probably over the weekend if I get the time. Though netcfg has really improved in the last few months, I've had no problems.

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#60 2013-04-18 09:46:57

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DebianJoe wrote:
ew wrote:

Huh, don`t throw around words like that, I had to check it out:)

I had just finished migrating one of my Arch boxes over manually to netctl, I had to throw it out there.  The idea that something is "using systemd" is still a bit hazy.  Every few weeks, I seem to be moving more processes into true systemd.  I'm starting to wonder how much could possibly be left.  I am left assuming that if I'm still migrating processes on Kernel 3.8.7-1, that there's more to come for everyone.

You've got to love the Arch, "We're telling you to do this now...so from this point on we're going to assume that you read the warnings and the man pages.  If you didn't, well, tough!" message.

Well, I think I`ll have to sit on the fence with that for a while. Systemd improved my boot-time and shutdown time. I have no need to start using netctl... My brain freeze would probably last longer than the Debian freeze...But who am I kidding, I probably have to try that too big_smile


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#61 2013-04-18 09:54:56

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DapperMe17 wrote:
ew wrote:

Edit: Because it`s already used in linuxbbq, I tried installing Systemd for Waldorf. Easy peasy. Works like a charm. It was already booting fast on my SSD, but Systemd possibly shaved off a second or two on my boot time, but the shutdown-time was significantly improved. With Systemd, it`s almost instant. Yes, this is probably the way to go, and people who doesn`t like it, can always remove the kernel parameter, and boot with init as before. Thums up for Systemd smile

Last edited by ew (Yesterday 23:30:19)

ew,

Can you detail your addition to grub?

Sure, but my line is a little special because of a issue with intel hd graphics 4000...

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="init=/bin/systemd acpi_osi=\Linux\ acpi_backlight=vendor quiet"

Now I see that "ro" is missing from my line, I`probably should add that. I don`t know if I accidently removed it while editing, or if it wasn`t there...


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#62 2013-04-18 11:38:01

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,591

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DebianJoe wrote:

Every few weeks, I seem to be moving more processes into true systemd.  I'm starting to wonder how much could possibly be left.

Have you heard of systemd --user? It can fully replace your ~/.xinitrc devil


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres
Github

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#64 2013-04-19 08:02:37

DapperMe17
#! CrunchBanger
From: Todd's Gang
Registered: 2012-10-19
Posts: 221

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

ew,

Thanks for the info. If I'm working with a dual boot, is there an alternative to this?

ew wrote:

Sure, but my line is a little special because of a issue with intel hd graphics 4000...

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="init=/bin/systemd acpi_osi=\Linux\ acpi_backlight=vendor quiet"

Now I see that "ro" is missing from my line, I`probably should add that. I don`t know if I accidently removed it while editing, or if it wasn`t there...

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#65 2013-04-19 11:46:35

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

First, if you are booting fine today, don`t replace your line with mine. Just add this to your line : init=/bin/systemd

If you are dualbooting with windows and use grub to boot then there is no issue. As root, open "/etc/default/grub", and add "init=/bin/systemd" to the line,in the same way as you see that I`ve done, but don`t change other parameters in your line. When you`ve edited this file, and stored it, then run "sudo update-grub" from terminal.... Reboot, it should work...

If you are dualbooting with another linux-distro, then you do as above, but in addition you also have to run "sudo update-grub" in whatever distro that is used as the master-grub. (The distro which grub is installed to mbr). If you installed both distros grub to mbr, then it will the last one that you installed, which controls your boot....

Last edited by ew (2013-04-19 11:47:39)


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#66 2013-04-19 23:55:17

mynis01
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2010-07-02
Posts: 2,005

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Just gonna leave this here.....


daniel@delphiarch ~ % systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 1.330s (kernel) + 750ms (userspace) = 2.081s
daniel@delphiarch ~ % systemd-analyze blame
           182ms systemd-logind.service
           156ms media-delphixfs3.mount
            93ms systemd-vconsole-setup.service
            89ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
            86ms systemd-modules-load.service
            86ms systemd-sysctl.service
            80ms console-kit-daemon.service
            80ms dev-hugepages.mount
            70ms dev-mqueue.mount
            57ms systemd-random-seed-load.service
            53ms polkit.service
            43ms rc-local.service
            37ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-08BA\x2dE656.service
            36ms console-kit-log-system-start.service
            35ms alsa-restore.service
            33ms sys-kernel-config.mount
            33ms systemd-udevd.service
            33ms systemd-user-sessions.service
            30ms boot.mount
            26ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
            26ms systemd-remount-fs.service
            20ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
            18ms tmp.mount
             6ms systemd-journal-flush.service
             6ms upower.service
             2ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
             2ms boot-efi.mount

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#67 2013-04-20 00:16:05

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

mynis01 wrote:

Just gonna leave this here.....


daniel@delphiarch ~ % systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 1.330s (kernel) + 750ms (userspace) = 2.081s

Grrr, mine wasn`t as good as yours.

ew@cb11amd64:~$ systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 3553ms (kernel) + 1629ms (userspace) = 5183ms

ew@cb11amd64:~$ systemd-analyze blame
   778ms kbd.service
   194ms bluetooth.service
   173ms avahi-daemon.service
   153ms console-kit-log-system-start.service
   147ms motd.service
   141ms slim.service
   137ms minissdpd.service
   132ms speech-dispatcher.service
   131ms bootlogs.service
   121ms cron.service
   114ms console-setup.service
   114ms anacron.service
   114ms NetworkManager.service
   112ms keyboard-setup.service
   107ms binfmt-support.service
   102ms networking.service
    90ms saned.service
    86ms lightdm.service
    86ms console-kit-daemon.service
    86ms wpa_supplicant.service
    82ms rc.local.service
    80ms systemd-logind.service
    78ms loadcpufreq.service
    68ms ntp.service
    67ms upower.service
    64ms rtkit-daemon.service
    57ms alsa-utils.service
    50ms udev.service
    48ms systemd-user-sessions.service
    36ms sys-kernel-security.mount
    35ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
    34ms udev-trigger.service
    32ms screen-cleanup.service
    32ms systemd-modules-load.service
    31ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
    28ms dev-hugepages.mount
    27ms pulseaudio.service
    27ms cpufrequtils.service
    27ms gdm3.service
    25ms systemd-sysctl.service
    23ms pppd-dns.service
    22ms dev-mqueue.mount
    19ms openvpn.service
    16ms colord.service
    16ms hdparm.service
    16ms systemd-remount-api-vfs.service
    14ms run-lock.mount
    12ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
    11ms media-ubpartition.mount
    11ms run-user.mount
    11ms polkitd.service
    10ms remount-rootfs.service
     8ms udisks.service
     7ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
ew@cb11amd64:~$ 
 

I wonder where I safely could cut 3 seconds, so that I get your startup-time:)

To answer myself. I have to check out kbd.service, and bluetooth, as those two are eating up a whole second:) I checked my bbq-install, there wasn`t kbd.service but instead there was something called console-setup.service. Do I need those services? If I remove them, will I loose my language settings for the console etc...

Last edited by ew (2013-04-20 11:18:30)


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#68 2013-04-20 02:11:40

DapperMe17
#! CrunchBanger
From: Todd's Gang
Registered: 2012-10-19
Posts: 221

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Thanks ew.

I added "init=/bin/system.d" and updated both grubs, as you described. Unfortunately, the boot process locked up with verbose of  fsck systemd...

Not a problem, I'll just revert to the norm.

Thanks for your help.
wink

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#69 2013-04-20 11:21:11

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DapperMe17 wrote:

Thanks ew.

I added "init=/bin/system.d" and updated both grubs, as you described. Unfortunately, the boot process locked up with verbose of  fsck systemd...

Not a problem, I'll just revert to the norm.

Thanks for your help.
wink

Sorry to hear that. I`m new to systemd myself. Maybe someone else could tell you what could cause this...


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#70 2013-04-20 11:45:32

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

DapperMe17 wrote:

Thanks ew.

I added "init=/bin/system.d" and updated both grubs, as you described. Unfortunately, the boot process locked up with verbose of  fsck systemd...

Not a problem, I'll just revert to the norm.

Thanks for your help.
wink

Ooops. did you add it as you wrote above? It shouldn`t be "system.d" Loose the dot.... It should be "systemd"


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#71 2013-04-21 01:51:16

DapperMe17
#! CrunchBanger
From: Todd's Gang
Registered: 2012-10-19
Posts: 221

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

ew,

My typo...yes, I did add it as "init=/bin/systemd".

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#72 2013-04-27 10:59:11

dura
Bloated Gimp
From: interzone
Registered: 2012-09-15
Posts: 2,108

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Last night installed Waldorf on a friend's machine (new user- 'somethingnice'), and we put systemd on it, using mynis' suggestions for grub. Works a treat; much faster than init with Waldorf. A nice addition.

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#73 2013-04-27 16:29:56

dura
Bloated Gimp
From: interzone
Registered: 2012-09-15
Posts: 2,108

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

Installed systemd on girlfriend's CrunchBang Waldorf. Will cut out stuff systemd can take care of (acpid, etc.), but its working nice. So two Waldorf's I've installed systemd on; both have noticeably faster boot times, and I can enjoy the offerings of systemd.

jessie@waldorf:~$ pstree
systemd─┬─NetworkManager─┬─dhclient
        │                └─2*[{NetworkManager}]
        ├─acpid
        ├─agetty
        ├─anacron
        ├─avahi-daemon───avahi-daemon
        ├─clipit
        ├─compton
        ├─console-kit-dae───64*[{console-kit-dae}]
        ├─cron
        ├─2*[dbus-daemon]
        ├─dbus-launch
        ├─gconfd-2
        ├─gnome-keyring-d───6*[{gnome-keyring-d}]
        ├─gvfs-fuse-daemo───3*[{gvfs-fuse-daemo}]
        ├─gvfsd
        ├─minissdpd
        ├─modem-manager
        ├─nm-applet───{nm-applet}
        ├─ntpd
        ├─pnmixer───{pnmixer}
        ├─polkitd───{polkitd}
        ├─pulseaudio───2*[{pulseaudio}]
        ├─redshift
        ├─rsyslogd───3*[{rsyslogd}]
        ├─rtkit-daemon───2*[{rtkit-daemon}]
        ├─sh───sleep
        ├─slim─┬─Xorg
        │      └─openbox─┬─/usr/bin/termin─┬─bash───pstree
        │                │                 ├─gnome-pty-helpe
        │                │                 └─{/usr/bin/termin}
        │                └─ssh-agent
        ├─system-config-p
        ├─systemd-journal
        ├─systemd-logind
        ├─thunar
        ├─tint2
        ├─udevd───2*[udevd]
        ├─upowerd───2*[{upowerd}]
        ├─wpa_supplicant
        ├─xfce4-notifyd
        ├─xfce4-power-man───{xfce4-power-man}
        ├─xfce4-volumed───4*[{xfce4-volumed}]
        ├─xfconfd
        └─xscreensaver

Still pretty slow I guess (no sdd, and unnecessary processes starting at boot, etc.), but...

jessie@waldorf:~$ systemd-analyze blame
  4574ms debian-enable-units.service
  2760ms tlp.service
  2307ms slim.service
  1793ms loadcpufreq.service
  1776ms bootlogs.service
  1675ms avahi-daemon.service
  1663ms keyboard-setup.service
  1601ms systemd-logind.service
  1441ms NetworkManager.service
  1009ms cron.service
   970ms anacron.service
   863ms hdparm.service
   828ms udev.service
   751ms ntp.service
   569ms sys-kernel-security.mount
   563ms dev-hugepages.mount
   551ms minissdpd.service
   539ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
   537ms dev-mqueue.mount
   509ms run-user.mount
   502ms run-lock.mount
   457ms resolvconf.service
   340ms networking.service
   300ms systemd-sysctl.service
   286ms pulseaudio.service
   282ms openvpn.service
   233ms udev-trigger.service
   225ms screen-cleanup.service
   208ms systemd-modules-load.service
   204ms kbd.service
   200ms polkitd.service
   190ms upower.service
   187ms console-setup.service
   186ms alsa-utils.service
   170ms rc.local.service
   163ms systemd-remount-api-vfs.service
   137ms home.mount
   135ms console-kit-daemon.service
   131ms wpa_supplicant.service
   128ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
   114ms smartmontools.service
   102ms console-kit-log-system-start.service
   101ms remount-rootfs.service
    81ms cpufrequtils.service
    74ms motd.service
    61ms pppd-dns.service
    24ms rtkit-daemon.service
    19ms systemd-user-sessions.service

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#74 2013-04-27 19:35:26

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

to have a try -  edit the grub line -in- grub, - hit 'e' on the chosen bootline and boogle around to add to the 'linux' line as ew described. if your system bums out, no biggie, quick vulan nerve death grip and you's back on sysV.

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#75 2013-04-27 20:52:24

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Systemd opposed to init?

dura wrote:

Installed systemd on girlfriend's CrunchBang Waldorf. Will cut out stuff systemd can take care of (acpid, etc.), but its working nice. So two Waldorf's I've installed systemd on; both have noticeably faster boot times, and I can enjoy the offerings of systemd.

Still pretty slow I guess (no sdd, and unnecessary processes starting at boot, etc.), but...

I guess ssd makes all the difference, because with systemd I`m booting Waldorf with the complete Gnome3 enviroment(included all the apps) in 5.1 seconds in total, and that`s with bluetooth and everything enabled. Not done any configuration at all, besides installing systemd and added it to the kernel-line. 5.1 seconds seems so fast that I don`t know if I`m motivated to disable startup processes to shave of maybe a second or two more.... It`s fast enough by default:)


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