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#1 2013-10-17 19:51:08

swiftlinuxcreator
New Member
Registered: 2011-01-22
Posts: 4

Great distro, needs default DE

I have installed CrunchBang Linux on my laptop, and I may install it on my desktop as well.  I can see why CrunchBang has risen to #13 on Distrowatch.  CrunchBang now provides serious competition to Linux Mint Debian Edition, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux.  Under the hood, CrunchBang beats each of these three other top distros.  CrunchBang has these advantages:
1.  CrunchBang is one of the few distros based on Debian Stable and is sticking with Debian Wheezy.  (Debian Wheezy has been such a big hit that Debian has risen to #2 on Distrowatch since Wheezy became the new Stable.)  LMDE and antiX Linux are based on Debian Testing.  CrunchBang's Debian Stable base makes it easier for users to keep everything up-to-date and makes the distro lighter and more stable.
2.  CrunchBang is lighter and faster than LMDE, which offers a MATE edition and a Cinnamon Edition.  (LMDE's Xfce  edition has been discontinued.)  Thus, Crunchbang is competitive with Puppy Linux and antiX Linux on speed and clearly beats LMDE.
3.  CrunchBang has better driver/codec support than antiX Linux.  I can play DVDs out-of-the-box with CrunchBang, LMDE, and Puppy Linux but not with antiX Linux.
4.  CrunchBang is fully compatible with Debian's large software repository.  On the other hand, Puppy Linux has a much smaller software repository.  Thus, CrunchBang trounces Puppy Linux in this area.
5.  CrunchBang offers great post-install scripts.  I only wish these scripts would specify how many MB of files need to be downloaded BEFORE giving us the option to forgo them.

My suggestions for improving CrunchBang are:
1.  Provide a DE out-of-the-box, as LMDE, Puppy Linux, and antiX Linux do.  This would broaden the appeal of CrunchBang and increase its appeal to Windows and Mac users trying out Linux for the first time.  I first tried CrunchBang a few years ago and didn't like it due to the lack of a desktop.  The procedures for adding a desktop are now in the wiki, but I still think it would be better to provide a desktop out-of-the-box.  Puppy Linux, antiX Linux, and SliTaz Linux prove that DEs can be lightweight, and people who don't like having a DE can just disable it.  CrunchBang could offer a desktop edition and a non-desktop edition, which would be analagous to antiX full and antiX base.
2.  Leave out pre-installed GIMP.  GIMP is a heavyweight app that makes CrunchBang too big to fit onto a CD.  Most of us don't use GIMP.  Provide pre-installed mtPaint instead, which is considerably lighter and simpler.  The small percentage of users who like GIMP can install it from the repository.
3.  Provide pre-installed LibreOffice.  LibreOffice is one of the most widely used open source programs.  (It's much more widely used than GIMP.)  I know LibreOffice is heavy, but antiX Linux does pre-install it AND manages to keep the ISO file small enough to fit onto a CD.  Forgoing pre-installed GIMP would free up space.

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#2 2013-10-17 20:35:47

Naik
#! Die Hard
From: Leipzig
Registered: 2012-11-16
Posts: 595

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Hello swiftlinuxcreator!

I am happy to have you here and even more that you  appreciate what corenominal provides!
But i have to disagree in several points:

1.
IMO not having a default DE  is one of the advantages of #! and i wouldn`t move a finger to get one.. There are so many distros out there, why do the same that all the others do, if you don`t need/like to?
2.
Why do you compare #! to PuppyLinux and SliTaz? I think it is a common mistake to think a "lightweight" distribution has to use up little space on the installation-medium. I think what is meant here is that it isn`t hungry on systemresources once running.
3.
I personaly would not purge GIMP for any other gui image editor because there is no alternative.

Another thing is the mere making of this thread: There is a thread called "ideas for Janice" which will be the next release and if you think there is a need for improvement on the post-installation-script or the selection of applications, just feel free to post it there.

what i am trying not to say aloud is: how dare you talking back on Corenominal regarding the choises he made, making this distribution a unique and really fun one to work with, instead of choosing some of the lame win-like ones or even making your own devil
But don`t take me too serious about the last one and have fun Crunching 'n' Banging!

greetz -naik


*kaum macht man es richtig, funktioniert es sofort*

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#3 2013-10-17 20:55:16

Anakinholland
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2011-11-30
Posts: 210

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Gaining users is not an goal. Please refer to the goals of this project:

#! wrote:

The primary aim of the CrunchBang project is to produce a stable distribution offering the best possible out-of-the-box Openbox experience.

#! wrote:

Put simply; CrunchBang could be thought of as a layer built on top of Debian, specifically to provide a great Openbox experience.

Based on that, there will be no default DE in the foreseeable future. smile


Use what you like. If you don't like it, improve it. If you can't, look for something else. || **Please read before posting** || Edit the first post in a topic and mark it [solved] if it has been.

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#4 2013-10-17 21:24:46

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,943

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Great distro, needs default DE

No.  No it doesn't.  CrunchBang is great without one; adding a DE to it would be akin to adding a line to a Mozart concerto; it would make it different, but you can't improve on perfection.

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#5 2013-10-17 21:26:00

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

What pvsage said.


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#6 2013-10-17 22:15:01

AndyinMokum
#! Junkie
From: Amsterdam
Registered: 2013-09-01
Posts: 274

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

I have to disagree with having a DE.  Crunchbang is an Openbox distro.  That is the joy of it. Having a DE would be counter productive and a step backwards.  A brighter selection of default background images is the only change I would make.  The rest is up to the individual.


"If you can't blind 'em with science, baffle 'em with bullshit".

Distros: Crunchbang 11 ""Waldorf" 64bit & Peppermint Five 64bit, Machine: Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO Notebook Li 3710, CPU: 2x Intel Pentium Dual CPU T3400 @ 2.16GHz, RAM: 4GB

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#7 2013-10-17 23:22:46

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,972

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

CrunchBang included the Xfce desktop environment in some past releases, so it is a reasonable daydream. Test-drive some of the old historical releases, if you want some fun!

That said, I have always thought of #! as having its own signature "desktop environment" (openbox, tint2, conky, dmenu, thunar, etc.) and frankly I think #! is what LXDE should have been (I've suggested in the past that 'crunchbang-desktop' should be a DE available for all distros, rather than/in addition to being a standalone distro). To argue whether or not #! does or doesn't have a "desktop environment" is just semantics IMHO.

It is interesting to note that major DE's such as Gnome and Unity have drifted away from the 1970s Xerox PARC "desktop metaphor" in recent years and become more "crunchbangy." Look at screenshots from each Fedora release: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fedora_versions

Between 2010-11 (the time of #!'s transition from Ubuntu to Debian) there are sweeping changes to Fedora: single panel, dark theme, desktop icons eliminated, etc. Coincidence??

Last edited by snowpine (2013-10-17 23:23:36)


/hugged

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#8 2013-10-17 23:27:58

Sector11
Leonardo da Conci
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 14,913
Website

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

@ swiftlinuxcreator

RE: Suggestion #1 - Desktop Environment

Crunchbang provides every DE OOTB that Debian has to offer, it's called:

sudo apt-get install de-of-choice

.. and as you stated in Suggestion #2 about GIMP, the small percentage of users that want a DE in their #! install can use the above command.

Also as a side note Crunchbang is not in competition with the other distros you mentioned.  #! is "unique".

RE: Suggestion #2 GIMP vs mtPaint

? most of us ? With utmost respect, what most of us are you referring to?  Did you take a poll?

I guess I'm in the minority - I use it.

mtPaint?  You're kidding right, that is like comparing Windows Paint to PhotoShop.  Not the same animal at all.


RE: Suggestion #3 LibreOffice

I don't use LibreOffice, at all I'm happy it's not included But since it is in the cb-welcome script anyway ... it's "nearly" OOTB.

What's wrong with abiword and gnumeric?  I mean they must be lighter than LibreOffice.

Why not koffice - or better yet ; calligra ... now there's a suite of programs, and it's as OOTB as any DE is as well.

Again because you compared #! to another distro: Crunchbang is not in competition with the other distros, #! is "unique".

Afterthought ... not having hit the submit button yet I see what snowpine just wrote:  2 thumbs up on that!

Last edited by Sector11 (2013-10-17 23:29:10)

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#9 2013-10-17 23:54:19

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 970

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

swiftlinuxcreator wrote:

2.  CrunchBang is lighter and faster than LMDE, which offers a MATE edition and a Cinnamon Edition.

Because #! doesn't use MATE or Cinnamon, two heavy DEs.

I will just add that other people have come onto the forum here, offering "suggestions" similar to yours after only a few posts. This seems to me a little like going to visit someone's house, and after a brief tour starting to offer "suggestions" for how they should arrange the furniture or what colors they should paint the walls. Slightly rude, at best, and might get you shown quickly to the door if your host doesn't feel charitable that day.

And as far as I know, Puppy uses JWM or IceWM as default (window managers, not DEs) and SliTaz uses Openbox (WM again, not DE). Also, both are designed to be extremely lightweight. #! is not.

Last edited by porkpiehat (2013-10-18 00:09:29)


You can't make anything idiot proof because idiots are so ingenious.

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#10 2013-10-18 00:18:41

Sector11
Leonardo da Conci
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 14,913
Website

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

porkpiehat wrote:

And as far as I know, Puppy uses JWM or IceWM as default (window managers, not DEs) and SliTaz uses Openbox (WM again, not DE). Also, both are designed to be extremely lightweight. #! is not.

Good points and dead centre on target!

Directly from DistroWatch, not a DE in the bunch:

  1. AntiX: Fluxbox, IceWM

  2. SliTaz GNU/Linux: OpenBox

  3. Puppy Linux: JWM, Openbox

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#11 2013-10-18 00:30:05

saneks
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-10-01
Posts: 1,015

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

@ OP.. glad you like it.. but..

IMHO linux is not about competition, but about choice.

your suggestions point 1: people who want a DE can just enable it. crunchbang has no DE since forever. it is perfectly good as it is and it is designed to be what it is. and the users use it for what it is.. if you want a DE, just apt-get install it and you still can use crunchbang.  or use another debian+[your DE of choice]-distro. you named a lot of nice distros in your first post that fulfill all needs of DE-lovers.

your points 2. and 3. contradict each other. (iso size - gimp vs LO)

besides, crunchbang does not aim to take over the world OS market.

yawn. time to go tp sleep.

Last edited by saneks (2013-10-18 00:38:59)


eee701 user & other lap/desktops

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#12 2013-10-18 02:43:45

shem
#! Member
From: Universe 6.62606957(29)×10−34
Registered: 2012-05-16
Posts: 78

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Also worth considering this quote from our own BDFL:

corenominal wrote:

It is a common mistake to think that every developer wants their project to be widely popular smile

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#13 2013-10-18 03:50:00

vic
#! by Default
From: /grill
Registered: 2009-02-13
Posts: 3,337

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

A cliche, I know, but "Why change a winning concept?"


Time to move on!#

Casual - A nano opera

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#14 2013-10-18 04:03:00

Sector11
Leonardo da Conci
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 14,913
Website

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

vicshrike wrote:

A cliche, I know, but "Why change a winning concept?"

Yea but in this case one deserving of an ovation.

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#15 2013-10-18 05:40:55

Chooch
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2013-09-29
Posts: 76

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

I'm a new user of CrunchBang. One of the things that attracted me to #! is that it DOESN'T come with a DE (But of course there was always the option of installing a DE, if one so chooses); and I also liked that it doesn't come with an office suite. There are so many bloated distros out there these days....it seems the only differences between 80% of the various distros are what programs they come with out-of-the-box. I never used 95% of the stuff my OSes came with in the past; and even the stuff i had use for, I'd often change out for a different app- so why not start with a nice clean minimal set-up, and just install whatever you want?

And even I use GIMP- it's pretty much indispensible if you do anything at all with a digital camera- but I wouldn't care either way on that, 'cause if it t'weren't there, it'd be easy enough to install.

I love #! just the way it is! I hope it never changes; hope they never start adding a bunch of junk which I don't want. In a sea of bloated distros with clogged menus and rersource-hungry but trivial non-productive eye-candy, Crunchy stands out like a beautiful rose in a sea of weeds.

And the beauty of it is: You are still free to make it into exactly what you want. Isn't that what Linux was supposed to be all about? If I wanted gobs of pre-installed crap and eye-candy, I would have stayed with Windows[shudder].


CAUTION!    Linus may be quoted!!.

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#16 2013-10-18 05:55:35

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,943

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

@OP:  So, seriously...you're playing Devil's Advocate with this, right?  If not, you're in the extreme minority of CrunchBang users...and there's nothing wrong with that.  Heck, the Tea Party recently proved that an extreme minority has the power to gridlock Congress.

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#17 2013-10-18 12:58:58

vic
#! by Default
From: /grill
Registered: 2009-02-13
Posts: 3,337

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Maybe what OP is wondering about is what a crunchified DE would look and work like after a corenominal massage?


Time to move on!#

Casual - A nano opera

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#18 2013-10-18 14:28:53

Chooch
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2013-09-29
Posts: 76

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

After Ubuntu started flaking-out, and I was looking for a new distro, I was shocked to see that Arch, and even Linux Lite now come with Steam pre-installed! I mean, not that there's anything wrong with Steam, per se, but why should somebody like myself, who will never use it, be forced to have such a thing (and it's dependencies) on our machines? Such scenarios make it seem like half of the distros out there are being marketed to pimply-faced 12 year-olds, who are sitting in their bedrooms, salivating, saying "Dude, this one comes with XYZ! Ah,k I'm downloading it!".

Crunchbang seems to be the thinking-man's OS. "Get a great functional and efficient platform out-of-the-box, then do with it as you please. Construct it if you will...no need to destruct it".


CAUTION!    Linus may be quoted!!.

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#19 2013-10-18 15:53:37

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 970

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Chooch wrote:

After Ubuntu started flaking-out, and I was looking for a new distro, I was shocked to see that Arch, and even Linux Lite now come with Steam pre-installed!

What are you talking about? Nothing comes pre-installed on Arch -- you even have to install the base package yourself. Or are you talking about Manjaro, Bridge, or one of the other Arch-derivatives?


You can't make anything idiot proof because idiots are so ingenious.

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#20 2013-10-18 16:06:31

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,505

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Now it makes me wonder what DE would get choosen IF (Only two comes to my mind right now: razor qt and enlightenment).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2013-10-18 16:06:51)

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#21 2013-10-18 16:24:33

Chooch
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2013-09-29
Posts: 76

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

porkpiehat wrote:
Chooch wrote:

After Ubuntu started flaking-out, and I was looking for a new distro, I was shocked to see that Arch, and even Linux Lite now come with Steam pre-installed!

What are you talking about? Nothing comes pre-installed on Arch -- you even have to install the base package yourself. Or are you talking about Manjaro, Bridge, or one of the other Arch-derivatives?

You're right.... I was watching a bunch of Linux vids the other night- must've been mistaken...


CAUTION!    Linus may be quoted!!.

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#22 2013-10-18 18:43:44

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,295

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Nice Les Misérables reference in Fedora 18

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#23 2013-10-22 19:40:30

Hy
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2012-02-18
Posts: 109

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

#! is a great distribution just the way it is smile


~ #! Another satisfied customer #! ~

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#24 2013-10-22 19:47:28

Hadrianvs
Member
Registered: 2013-10-20
Posts: 43

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

I myself agree...however... wife said: [actual qquote] no desktop icons? ... new distro or else. [/qquote] I run mint on her computer now:))))))))))))))

Salve!


Honeste vivere, neminem (altervm non) laedere, svvm cvique tribvere.

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Be excellent to each other!

#25 2013-10-22 19:58:09

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 970

Re: Great distro, needs default DE

Hadrianvs wrote:

wife said: [actual qquote] no desktop icons? ... new distro or else. [/qquote]

It is quite easy to add desktop icons to crunchbang. http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=19901

She is probably happier with mint, but you did not need to switch distros to give her desktop icons.


You can't make anything idiot proof because idiots are so ingenious.

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